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BSD Operating Systems

LinuxWorld article about FreeBSDCon 38

Posted by Nik from the we-*can*-all-get-along dept.
wozz (a frequent contributor of BSD news) writes "There's nice summary of FreeBSD Con in this LinuxWorld article." This is not the first FreeBSD-friendly article LinuxWorld have run, and I'm sure it won't be the last.
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LinuxWorld article about FreeBSDCon More

LinuxWorld article about FreeBSDCon

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  • We've duly noted that Yahoo runs on FreeBSD, and are considering switching.

    They're doing no such thing. One of their co-founders (David Filo) said that a company starting out today might consider Linux instead of FreeBSD, since it has more momentum at the moment. But he went on to say that he was quite happy with FreeBSD, in part because of the large amount of onsite experience Yahoo has with it. Doesn't sound like they're changing any time soon.

    What are the essential differences between FreeBSD and Linux?

    FreeBSD has a somewhat simpler kernel interface, closer to the original Research Unix kernels than Linux. Linux tends to be closer to System V. The virtual memory systems and network stacks are quite different; IMHO the VM system in FreeBSD is better than Linux's (both in terms of capability and performance), and the TCP/IP stack seems to perform better when supporting HTTP service, though this in part depends upon whose benchmarks you believe. FreeBSD has fewer device drivers, though the ones it has tend to be solid (as are many, but hardly all, of Linux's). The Berkeley FFS seems much less prone to damage than Linux's EXT2 FS, though it can be slower in some cases. Recent Linuxes do SMP better than FreeBSD, and Linux threads actually work. Linux supports a lot more hardware platforms (although other porting efforts are underway, FreeBSD really only runs on Intel and Alpha). There are more applications--both free and commercial--for Linux.

    (I could go on, but you get the idea.)

    There is no clear "superior" OS. A lot of the controvery is over religious issues--the real answer is to choose the system that is best for a particular application.

    -Ed
  • I think having Taco recipes on Slashdot would definitely be cool.

    --
  • I checked, and I couldn't find specs for any other product.. but likely missed them. They support a good number of platforms.

    System Requirements
    Traffic Server is built on standard hardware and system software, reducing the cost of ownership and enabling you to fully leverage advances in hardware and software technology as they are introduced.

    For All Platforms:

    Disks for Cache - 6 to 8 disks, formatted in raw disk partitions Network Interface - 100 MB Ethernet or FDDI
    For Sun Solaris:
    Hardware - Sun Ultra SPARC with 256 MB RAM
    Operating System - Solaris(tm) 2.6 and Solaris 7

    For Compaq UNIX:
    Hardware- Digital Alpha/OSF server with 256 MB RAM
    Operating System - Digital UNIX 4.0D (Compaq Tru64 Unix)

    For SGI IRIX:
    Hardware - SGI Origin Servers with 256 MB RAM
    perating System - IRIX 6.5

    For FreeBSD:
    Hardware - Any Pentium(r)-based system or equivalent
    Operating System - FreeBSD 3.1 with Linux Threads Port Installed

    For Windows NT:
    Hardware - Any Pentium(r)-based system or equivalent
    Operating System - Windows NT 4.0
  • uh huh

    I think Inktomi, the search engine that powers hotbot and others runs on the hardware I described. I think they have two of the NOW's now. Their products may run on other hardware, you seem to have done the research.

    Its an interesting design, and I like it . . . kind of beowulfy

    -- Reverend Vryl

  • ... (Score:3)

    by Signal 11 ( 7608 ) on Monday November 01, 1999 @05:13AM (#1572535)
    Okay, I admit it. Talking about the FreeBSD convention is a sensitive issue. When I was 9 years old this huge daemon appeared at the foot of my bed and told me that "I would do something no geek has ever done before". I thought I did that when I drank 3 cases of mtn dew and coded for 4 days straight without sleep. Of course, I've been debugging it ever since, but that's not the point. Now I know what my true destiny is.... I must install FreeBSD on my system. If I `make` it, they will come....

    --
  • It's important to be fair and see that other people have good ideas and are doing good work. It's also useful as well. By being "friendly" we not only increase the chances of a good flow of information but also make ourselves look better to the outside world.

    The other important thing to realise is the linux isn't the best operating system in the world for everything. I know a lot of people keep saying that here but a lot also seem to think the linux is. By getting to know more about the plus points of the other systems our there we only benefit outselves.

    Personal Note: I've used FreeBSD - didn't like some stuff about it (give me /dev/eth0, /dev/eth1 anyday) but it was faster than linux on the box I was running it on. All in all - I'd use it again.
    --
  • Actually, a geek-recipies section of Slashdot would be pretty cool. Malda, what do you think?

    How about a sushi bar directory and rating page?

    "I am thinkink it's about that time again..."-UF
  • Now, this may be a stupid thing to ask (this is not meant to be flamebait), but why is a publication called "LinuxWorld" covering BSD events? Don't get me wrong, I think it's great the FreeBSD is getting more exposure, I just find it odd that Linux related websites are covering non-Linux things. Are we going to see Linux kernel updates on www.freebsd.org [freebsd.org] soon? Am I going to find articles about hang gliding on Segfault? Will Slashdot be showing recipes for chicken wings?

    --
  • Why shouldn't it cover important BSD issues?

    Because it's a Linux related website? Do you see Ferrari magazines covering Porsche conventions?

    --

  • /dev/eth0? You'll never know what kind of NIC you have that way :)
  • Unfortunantly for FreeBSD, a bunch of hackers wrote an OS is a much more compelling story than a bunch of pros released their source code.

    so a professional programmer isn't a hacker? I thought the best programmers and such would be, not the 14 year old down the block who plays half life all day and asks what those ugly slots in my computer (5.25") are... wonder if any know of dos (the OS!) :-)

    However, like the GNU/Linux controversy, most FreeBSD/Linux boxes are largely made up of GNU software to complete the set, or other open source projects. Until recently, there were no relavent commercial applications.

    Nope. RMS has said he only wanted GNU/Linux, not GNU/xBSD. The reason is because a basic install of linux reqires GNU tools (because linux is only a kernel). BSD has many of its own tools, ie shells, editors, etc. For ease of use, GNU tools (ie, lscolor, gcc) are provided. Oh, and there have been many comcercial applications for both Linux and BSD for a while.. just more and more coming. The Inkomia (sp?) search engine that Yahoo uses I assume is on FreeBSD machines..

    FreeBSD/Linux should compete at being thebest free OS to run the free tools and applications, and we'll see whether the hacker approach or the BSD approach wins.

    wrong. FreeBSD is targetting server / workstations, Linux is tarketting everything you can think of, which means its very general and has no single goal, except maybe Linus's which was a cheap UNIX for his desktop. FreeBSD and Linux can live happily as long as they don't try to kill the other off.

    Who knows, maybe we'll see a BSD-based Mac Client base dominate the pc market, linux-based Internet appliances take the rest of the former PC market, and Linux and the BSDs and Linux face off in the server market, each server their niche...

    Well, obviousely we'll see MacOS X (bsd).. and NetBSD has a Mac port, as likely OpenBSD does. I don't think Linux should try to prove its better than everyone else, because if Linux is to be the best in the server market, then its going to neglect the imbedded, unless you imagine a tremendious amount of labor (and thus, likely forks to improve on the desired platform). FreeBSD has a lot of Internet/networking applications. BSD is pretty popular with small startups making networking programs/servers.. where as Linux's popularity is only recently there, and just to capitalize from the media attention.
  • ok, then why don't you take the sinical, suspicious approach that Linux sites are really telling its readers about FreeBSD so that in closed quarters, LUGs can create massive attacks on BSD.. sneaking GPL code into the kernel, analyzing the system to find backdoors and 'teach yahoo a lesson' for not going Linux... and its all in a chearful 'lets see what the other guy is doing' attitude, while really deep down its 'lets steal that! get the media!' 'those bastards.. they wrote better code.. lets go kidnap JKH and ransom him for the FreeBSD code base'.. heh, more conspiracy theories? I think the linux sites (slashdot included) are adding BSD articles because they realize that a lot of readers are BSD users, and wantto capitalize on it. They also realize a lot of Linux users aren't zealots and out of those, a good number are interested too.
  • Actually, a geek-recipies section of Slashdot would be pretty cool. Malda, what do you think?
  • heh, yep. I probably should have given a better example than gcc.. since there's not a replacement of a BSD version (at least to my knowledge). Still, the overall point is BSD is not tied to FSF and GPL programs, as RMS states on FSF.org.
  • I'm really glad BSDs are getting more exposure lately. Not because I'm a BSD weenie from way back or anything... actually, I think the only BSDish system I've ever been on would be SunOS 4.x.
    No, I'm glad because biological diversity is good, and cross-pollination have always proven fruitful. In recent days, I've seen a lot about OpenBSD, for instance. Based on that, I've decided to give it a try on a spare box here, and see if it's rock-solid security claims are met. I expect that to not even be an issue though -- the work and testimonials already have me convinced of that.

    Viva open-source! Let a thousand OS's bloom!

    (now we just need more articles about even stranger things like Eros, OS's and programs that aren't even on people's radar yet. I hope all the grad students out there working on cool stuff be sure to submit their thesis to Slashdot )
  • Why shouldn't it cover important BSD issues?

    BSD and Linux are very alike, they both set out to achieve the same goals (free, reliable Unix environment) and shouldn't be seen as competitors.

    Ignoring BSD isn't going to make it go away, and maybe Linux people could learn things from the BSD crowd (and vice versa).

  • You've never had a box with 6 network cards in it of mixed types... It's a horror story to handle with eth's, as anytime a change happens, the entire system switches. Atleast with different types in their own groups, a change in ordering will only affect 1 or 2.

    BTW... 2 gbit nics, 2 100mbit nics, and 2 10mbit nics... Each to a different network :)
  • FreeBSD is interesting, because to an end-user, it is a similar option to Linux. The key difference that I can see, is that FreeBSD has a more "professional" background and Linux has the "hacker community" background.

    Unfortunantly for FreeBSD, a bunch of hackers wrote an OS is a much more compelling story than a bunch of pros released their source code.

    However, like the GNU/Linux controversy, most FreeBSD/Linux boxes are largely made up of GNU software to complete the set, or other open source projects. Until recently, there were no relavent commercial applications.

    FreeBSD/Linux should compete at being the best free OS to run the free tools and applications, and we'll see whether the hacker approach or the BSD approach wins. Ironically, FreeBSD seems to be getting more hacker support as Linux goes maintstream, and Linux is picking up corporate/professional programming from the Red Hat IPO and other stuff.

    I think that as long as FreeBSD makes cross compiling trivial, there is no reason for FreeBSD and Linux to not fill different niches based on what you need out of your kernel.

    I'm glad to see FreeBSD get publicity. A world in which only Linux existed would be horrible. Despite what most people say here, a Linux monopoly would encourage sitting on our laurels... The "we can beat Microsoft" and "us vs. the world" mentalities are what is fueling the constand innovation that we are seeing...

    Who knows, maybe we'll see a BSD-based Mac Client base dominate the pc market, linux-based Internet appliances take the rest of the former PC market, and Linux and the BSDs and Linux face off in the server market, each server their niche...

    Kinda of ironic that we keep going back to this older model, huh? (Not that modern UNIX designs resemble the old onesin anything but the interface anyway)... Maybe the researchers actually got something write...

    We just gotta ditch the old school interface idea... you know, where the user interface is designed to hurt the user...

    Alex
    M.C.S.E. trying to pick up Linux as fast as I can... but I've been trying for years, so words of encouragement are a plus
    • For ease of use, GNU tools (ie, lscolor,
    • gcc ) are provided.

    gcc is provided for "ease of use"?

    I suppose it does make it easier to do kernel development.

  • I would think that the reason they cover is because of the apps that they have in common.

    There are some big projects which work on both like KDE and gnome. Blackbox is developed on a FreeBSD system but I use it on Linux...

    I am trying out FreeBSD 3.3 at home and it is quite similiar to Linux. The first thing I did was got into the ports directory and added all of my favorite Linux programs. My Linux partition and freebsd partition are almost indistinguishable from a user point of view.

    I actually had an easier time setting up my super cheapo sound card on freebsd than linux. On the other hand I haven't gotten my cheapo scsi card working yet but it works fine with linux.

  • Amen to that! Linux and the assorted BSDen have similiar aims, just done somewhat differently, and the kind of bickering noises you see around Slashdot whenever the three letters "BSD" are mentioned are generally ill-informed and frankly embarrassing..

    I've been having a play with OpenBSD (security work) over the last week or so, and I like. It's a solid, no-nonsense, secure Un*x-ish OS - a little bare-bones for the type of beginning user that Linux caters to so well, perhaps, but if you're looking for a solid server OS it seems great. Not to mention the fact that it reminds me of SunOS 4, still my favourite Un*x by a long chalk..

    Linux is still the primary free Un*x around here, but there are certainly places where the BSDen can be perhaps more appropriate. Just depends on the application - it's all horses for courses. Penguins for demons. Whatever..

  • If there is one thing Linux has done better than any BSD, it is marketing. There are more Linux books/cd's/posters/publications that probably all of the BSD's combined. Regardless of your opinions of the operating systems themselves, this is of huge importance for gaining support going forward.

    It saddens me that the BSD community gets some of it's best press from Linux publications. I am a BSD person at heart, and I wish we could generate more of our own publicity.

    NB: For the humor impared, the only comparason the subject should imply is that both have found ways to market themselves that make consumers aware of their existance.

  • Do you get upset that Solaris Central covers Linux stories as well?
  • Will Slashdot be showing recipes for chicken wings?

    &lthumor>
    Hey, a recipes section would be a great idea! Especially for all us bachelor geeks who can't cook and barely feed ourselves.. (I sadly fall into this category..)

    Come on Taco! It's genius! Really!

    Since we spend all day surfing /. , /. tells us what's going on in that world outside our own front door. /. can be the geek's answer to "get a life.." /. can tell us what to wear, who's the latest cool open source guy to listen to, what's good on tv, what to eat, how to think, and basically be big bro in real life! Sweet..

    Maybe if you work it right, you can call it a cult and claim huge tax breaks!

    &lt/humor>

    ---
  • Which is what I believe Inktomi trumpet on their website.

    I seem to recall from previous research that they are dual processor/dual mirror hard-drive sun sparcs, so I assume sunos/solaris.

    -- Reverend Vryl

  • I'm not upset about it! I'm just curious...

    --

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