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BSD Operating Systems

FreeBSD 3.3 Released 165

Posted by justin++ from the use-a-mirror dept.
Cale Pearce was the first to write in with the news that FreeBSD 3.3 has been released, along with some release notes. As always, please use a mirror. Lots of new drivers, USB updates and other goodies included.
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FreeBSD 3.3 Released More

FreeBSD 3.3 Released

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  • Wheeee! I'm gonna upgrade all my boxes tomorrow. Which is kinda weird, now that I think of it. I've had *no* trouble with 3.2 ...


    Bwuckatah bwuckatah bahhh, bwuckatah bwuckatah bahhh!
  • The last week with 3.3RC, and a new ethernet line.. that was painful. *Lots* of security fixes (stuff in the ports even removed).
    but.. Yippie! :)
  • Hmm.. well I tried installing FreeBSD about two years ago and the text based install completely confused the heck out of me, is the install engine the same or has it changed over the last year or so? Also does FreeBSD have a driver for the Be file system? ;) Finally is there a downloadable iso?
  • I hope the bulk of the bandwidth doesn't go away now that it has been Slashdot'd. That seems to always make i spike in downloads, and that inversly affects my download time. Errrrr.
  • I saw mention of packet filtering changes in the release notes. How does FreeBSD stack up to Linux as a firewall+masquerader? Are the ipfw/natd maintained? Are there mechanisms to allow active mode ftp and other things that don't fit nicely? I've used ipchains up to now, but I'm considering a change.
  • The install is still the same (as of 3.0 anyway). It is a little confusing at first, but after a little use it's not that bad.

    I don't know of a downloadable ISO, but if you can, I'd suggest you download a 'local mirror' to a local machine and do an FTP install off of there. It's relatively fast to do installs then (even if it takes you multiple attempts, like it did the first time I installed it.) Expect to use about 300 meg or so; you don't need the entire distribution tree either. Specifically, only get sys from the /src tree. You can also get by without /ports, /packages, and /proflibs. After you get the box up and running, you can grab these online (assuming the box has net access).

    Dunno about the Be filesystem drivers, but I kinda doubt it.

  • USB in linux.. (Score:3)

    by prodeje ( 58779 ) on Thursday September 16, 1999 @02:27PM (#1678037)
    There is all ready some basic USB support in 2.2.x and that will be greatly improved in 2.4. You could also go and use 2.3.x if you want more USB support, last I tried it was pretty stable. Anyhow.. it's coming along.

    ...
  • It's always nice to see a new release for *BSD.

    I've long heard tales of how stable and secure the various BSD distributions are, and I'd be interested in trying one of them out, except...

    I have no idea where to start finding info on them.

    Anybody have a good resource to get started on *BSD with? I'm a "competent" Linux user, but from what I've been able to tell, *BSD just doesn't have the same type of huge 'fan-base' that Linux does.
  • judging by a quick glance at the release notes, this seems to be on par with a new release of Red Hat or Debian, etc. FreeBSD 3.3 seems to be the whole distribution, not just the FreeBSD kernel (is it even referred to as that?).

    Good work, guys, but I'm not actually interested in installing FreeBSD. The three year gap between my attempt at FreeBSD (late 94 or early 95) and Linux (late 97) is the main factor in this. hw support during my two attempts was my main issue, though I'm sure FreeBSD now supports the Matsushita cdrom interface now, it didn't in 94/95 and Linux did in 97 (I was still using dos/windows with djgpp in between). I almost gave Linux a go back in 94, but I wasn't sure what it was:) but I recognised FreeBSD's pedigree from the Dr Dobbs articles on porting BSD to the 386. I've still got that CD collecting dust.

    None of this is meant as tinder. Good luck to the FreeBSD guys from a guy in the Linux camp.

  • Anyone know when cdrom.com will have cd's ready?
    I could download the iso and burn my own, but I'd like to support them.

  • Re:Some questions (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Give it another go if you have an interest (i'd say based on 3.2 experience) I'm not running it right now, but it's the only system I have confidence that I could get installed via ftp over a modem. (ok I bet I could handle RedHat over a modem but ..) Compared to trying to download/install Debian it's a walk in the park --even a joy in some ways! After dealing with rpm's the FreeBSD wway --/stand/sysinstall & ports'n'packages-- is so easy you may find yourself laughing maniacally as u dl 1 thing after another and watch them flawlessly install themselves.

  • ISO image (Score:5)

    by Latrell Sprewell ( 6906 ) on Thursday September 16, 1999 @02:43PM (#1678042)
    The .ISO image is in the directory above the link posted in the article, so before people post asking where it is, the .ISO is in here [freebsd.org]. Only disk 1 of 4 is available as an .ISO from the main FreeBSD FTP site (Walnut Creek), as the README.TXT states:

    This directory contains FreeBSD installation ISO images (the 1st CD out of every 4 CD set from Walnut Creek CDROM). This should be enough to install the full operating system, though if you're looking for the full experience or wish to support the project through your CD purchase, please see http://www.freebsdmall.com [freebsdmall.com]. Thanks!

    If you must have the entire 4 CD set for free, I'm sure that the usual suspects [freebsd.org] will have .ISO images of all 4 CDs soon. However, if you use it, you should support good software with your purchase.
  • Your best bets are:

    Seriously, all three contain a lot of information and links. Have fun!

  • Re:Hmmm, (Score:1)

    by cmc ( 44956 )
    judging by a quick glance at the release notes, this seems to be on par with a new release of Red Hat or Debian, etc. FreeBSD 3.3 seems to be the whole distribution, not just the FreeBSD kernel (is it even referred to as that?).

    Nope! FreeBSD has always been a full system. The kernel is the bit that sets up the devices and helps you use them, and the rest is the part you interact with. It's a full OS -- both kernel and userland are in the same CVS repository.

    (Note: I'm shocked to see a positive article so soon in a FreeBSD story. :)
  • Jordan mentioned that if testing goes OK, the
    images will be sent off for high volume
    replication tomorrow. Probably a few weeks until
    cdrom.com ships them then.

    Yes, please do support cdrom.com. They do a wonderful job supporting
    FreeBSD! I've been CVSuping to -STABLE for months now but will continue my CD
    subscription for that purpose alone.

    Great work all FreeBSD developers!
  • >Yes, please do support cdrom.com. They do a wonderful job supporting FreeBSD!

    Not only that, but they mirror many other places, and I can always get at least 40kb/s downloads from them. Very well run site.
  • Thanks. That's what I'd gathered from various messages here and there (mostly here on slashdot over the last 1.5 years), and actually looking at a FreeBSD release note.

    Also, what's there to be negative about? FreeBSD and Linux are just different (esp in licensing which is, admittedly, a religious topic). I've run into a few problems getting things to port (ssleay-ified telnet), but nothing to slam BSD over. I don't dislike FreeBSD, I just don't use it. Choice is good, choice works:).

  • A few weeks.. rad.. they've got my money. This will be my 5th purchased CD set.
  • It's 1am EST and out of 21 messages, there hasn't been a single "LINUX ROOLZ, BSD SUX" (or vice versa) post. It's all been civil (and mostly positive), and that's just as it should be. I guess it's past the trolls' bedtimes.

    (Of course by the time I've said this, the euro-trolls will be waking up and logging in.)
  • Here are some fan-base type sites:

    http://www.daemonnews.org/ [daemonnews.org]
    http://www.freebsdrocks.com/ [freebsdrocks.com]
    http://www.freebsddiary.com [freebsddiary.com]

  • In 1993, I bought what appeared to be the last Mitsumi ``single speed'' CD-ROM drive in the city of Toronto in order to do an install of FreeBSD.

    At the time, Slackware provided more "nifty, readily installable stuff" than FreeBSD, and it made more sense for me to run Linux.

    They nonetheless have a longstanding, mature, system that just seems to keep improving.

    FreeBSD is now getting shelf space at CompUSA, which should give it at least a little bit of "mindshare." It appears that some BSDers are a bit sore at the widespread public reception of Linux as "nearly mainstream;" this at least gives a bit of publicity in their favor.

  • The only portion of the install that particularly "phased" me was the scheme for establishing disk "slices."

    This results since the BSDs did not start with an attempt at interoperability with the MS-DOS partitioning scheme.

    Aside from partitioning, the install scheme has seemed to have less differences between it and (say) Slackware's install scheme than there is between the triad of (Debian, Slackware, Red Hat).

    I expect that there will be some phone lines and cable modems "burning" through tonight; if I were interested in doing a 3.3 install, I'd probably order a CD today, and let the bandwidth come via the mail system...

  • Whee! (Score:3)

    by Trick ( 3648 ) on Thursday September 16, 1999 @03:19PM (#1678056)
    Glad to see this baby's gone stable. Though I see a hell of a lot of sniping (not in the comments here yet, though, strangely enough) about which is better, I've got no problem using both 'em, and I find it really hard to beat *BSD as a server platform.

    I think Linux may have some headway on the desktop (and whether that's because it's more suitable, or just because it's gotten more apps through media coverage, I can't say), but if I'm setting up a box I just want to connect and have workwithout any worries, I still go with a BSD.

    Besides, if the two mascots got into a fight, you know the daemon'd win. An angry penguin biting you in the butt ain't jack compared to the damage of a red-hot trident.
  • I'm subscribed to FreeBSD-announce, and I haven't gotten any email regarding the release of 3.3-RELEASE yet... perhaps they're waiting for the mirrors to pick it up first, and weren't counting on slashdot blowing the cover?

    :)

    If there's even a small fraction as many FreeBSD users upgrading as when a new Linux distro comes out, CDROM.COM is having lots of fun trying to set more records, especially if the mirrors haven't picked it up. I haven't looked yet, and i'm not going to because i'll be rebuilding my FreeBSD box on better hardware in about a week. I'll wait till then.


    "Binaries may die but source code lives forever"
    -- Unknown

    SkyHawk
    Andrew Fremantle
  • Yeah they were still being uploaded at the time.. you could see them grow if you refreshed...
  • probably, seeing as how only ftp.ru.freebsd.org is reporting a full 3.3 mirror.
  • Look on the prefs page. It says the Local Time thing is funky.
  • I'm posting this question here because it's likely that a few FreeBSD experts will be reading this story.

    But to make a long story short, I'm trying to install FreeBSD on a machine with a diamond monster fusion (Voodoo Banshee based) video card. I'm using FreeBSD 3.2, but I added the XFree 3.3.5 packages. Everything is happy until I exit X, which totally hangs the machine (well, at least the console and networking are dead). Erg.

  • Re:USB support? (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 16, 1999 @04:01PM (#1678063)
    For USB info: http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl [etla.net] For links to this and other info: http://www.freebsd.org/projects/proje cts.html [freebsd.org]
  • If you need a decent operating system for any use then you shouldn't be using Unix or any variant of unix.

    Obviously a troll, just ingnore him.
  • hmm.. Sounds like its X's fault to me. I'd be surprised if it wasn't a problem in Linux too. Send this to freebsd-questions (@freebsd.org) and I'm sure you'll have over well handful of people trying to help. Just remember to put as much info as you know
  • Well, 10% of 600mb is a good chunk of time if you're downloading at 56k (but then again, what's another week? :) For big files, it's very worth it, but for those 50k tarballs, don't bother unless you're on a 300bps modem.
  • FreeBSD is now getting shelf space at CompUSA, which should give it at least a little bit of "mindshare."

    Hadn't seem FreeBSD at CompUSA. Can't say that I was looking for it though.

    I see Linux all over the place. From what I'm hearing here, there's no reason that *BSD couldn't be a big seller at CompUSA and Circuit City, too. It sure is getting some good press lately. Seems like you could target market FreeBSD as a more 'serious' Free OS, like Linux, but more 'mature'.

    Is anybody taking a *BSD distro mass market like Red Hat and others are doing with Linux? Aside from BSDI, of course, but they have a different target market than the Red Hat's do.

    How about commercial support? Will anybody other than BSDI contract commercial support for *BSD to you?

    Is the existence of BSDI, so far ahead of any potential startup in the *BSD field, holding down the potential entries in this field?

    Maybe BSDI should hit the shrink-wrapped distro market if nobody else does. If not them, maybe one of the Linux vendors could pick it up as a sideline. Seems like there would be obvious synergies for a Linux distro company if Linux and FreeBSD are the same in Userland as we've been hearing.

  • Re:FreeBSD as a firewall (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    How does FreeBSD stack up to Linux as a firewall+masquerader?

    Depends on your perspective. Real NAT is supported (ipchains does only masquerading), otherwise I don't see much difference. If you have access to a FreeBSD 3+ system, look at /etc/rc.firewall which shows how to build firewalls.

    A fundamental difference is that NAT is implemented as a user level process (through natd). The kernel contains the firewall code which allows diverting ip packets to user level processes.

    Are the ipfw/natd maintained?

    yes

    Are there mechanisms to allow active mode ftp and other things that don't fit nicely?

    I don't know of similar modules like Linux' ip_masq* modules. The following Daemon News says explicitly that non-passive mode ftp is not supported: http://www.daemonnews.org/199902/answerman.html#na t
  • I ordered two cds from cheapbytes yesterday and I'm expecting them sometime in the next 10 days (I'm in New Zealand). I just did the calulations, and assuming 640MB per cd and 10 day delivery, that gives me just under 12.5Kbps. Not particularly fast, but it beats tying up my one phoneline for 2 odd days (and I imagine my isp would get miffed at 1.3+G of traffic). That's only two cds. Can you imagine a plane load of them?
  • So I kissed him upside the cranium with that aluminum baseball bat ... My name is Mud!

    Uhhh ... Chris?


    Bwuckatah bwuckatah bahhh, bwuckatah bwuckatah bahhh!

  • UDMA Support for Aladdin IV?? Anybody? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I want to use UDMA with this baby. It's not supported in Linux. I'm not a religious man, so I can switch...Really! :) I've done some digging and have found little on the support of this chipset under BSD. I'm looking for full UDMA, not plain DMA and where it works in both reads *and* writes. Udma writes aren't working with linux with this board..benchmarks would be nice too...thanks :)
  • Althoug I prefer Linux, I've always liked the FreeBSD devil. Tux is fine and I find him soothing to look at (and my kids seem to love penguins from some strange reason...I just don't know why:), but I find the little devil in sneakers very adorable. Hopefully the two will become good friends:)
  • ...if Linux and FreeBSD are the same in Userland as we've been hearing.

    I'm not sure who's saying they're "the same in userland", but their userlands aren't the same code - the GNU stuff in userland may be the same in some BSD and some Linux distribution, but the C library in *BSD isn'tGNU "libc", and there are many non-GNU utilities in *BSD as well (the window system is probably similar, as most Linux distributions and the BSDs, with the possible exception of the commercial BSD/OS, use XFree86).

  • Re:Some questions (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There are iso's but there are hard to come by. FreeBSD get's there CD's made by Walnut Creek and that money funds the development. FreeBSD's and OpenBSD's installs are very very easy. What's hard is configuration. After using linux and configuring it, there were some things in BSD land that were awkward for me. However, I found FreeBSD + KDE to be so rock solid and speedy it took my breath away. However, one has to be willing to do a lot of hand tweaking to get it how you want it. Lots of chmod and chown; that can get tedious. Open BSD kicks ass if you want apach-ssl to work right out of the box. Trying to get the same functionality and ease out of Linux has given me major Headaches. What I had problems with was getting either BSD to dial the modem. I should have just stuck with it, but I was running out time so I went with what I knew, Debian. I must say that Debian is creeping on both BSDs with respect to both security and stability. I predict that Linux will surpass all BSDs within 2 years in all respects now there are big Corp dollars on the task. The flip side of this is that the BSDs will regain the home hacker market. What made Linux grow like mad could make the BSDs grow in a similar fashion when 3rd generation internet services come in (whatever those will look like).
  • I'm not certain, but I seem to remember hearing that all the standard tools ('cept the compiler tool chain) are non-gnu. I believe BSD has its own equivelents to fileutils, textutils, shellutils etc. I also suspect they don't use bash, but I don't know.
  • A pathetic attempt... Next time, try live, fresh flamebait, or leave it to the masters.
  • Hello,
    does freebsd have good apm support? I have been using linux for a couple years but lately i have become interested in trying freebsd. I recently purchased a toshiba satellite, which happens to need vesa framebuffer support to allow for a fullscreen console. Does freebsd have vesa frame buffer support? I have searched for this information but i cant find vesafb mentioned anywhere in any freebsd documentation.
  • Nope FreeBSD has no frame buffer support that I am aware of.
  • The only portion of the install that particularly "phased" me was the scheme for establishing disk "slices." This results since the BSDs did not start with an attempt at interoperability with the MS-DOS partitioning scheme.

    I feel that the system of splitting one partition table partition into several BSD-partitions actually enhances the chances of co-existence with other systems. The reason? You've only got four entries in the partition table. My favoured partitioning scheme would use three of three of them for file systems and one for swap. Yes, they _could_ go in an extended partition, but, in a sense, that's exactly what happens. It just isn't a Microsoft-style extended partition, which seems fair.

    I very much enjoy the fact that my FreeBSD installation will never use more than one partition table entry, and find the system much more easy to use than the Linux way, once you've realised what's actually going on.

  • As well as being better at compression, bzip2 is BSD licensed, whereas gzip is GPL'ed.

    As such, bzip2 is becoming preferred by BSD folk, especially as bzip2 can be linked into BSD kernels but gzip cannot (gzip's GPL would "infect" the whole kernel).
  • I've always wanted to try a *BSD, and now that I've blown away my Lose95 partition, I am able to do so.

    Is there any easy way to get hold of a CD in the UK? The local company that used to stock various CDs of this nature a few years ago seems to no longer bother to stock anything actually useful.
  • I have been saving my pennies for a CDROM of FreeBSD 3.2. I finally saved enough, went to freebsdmall and ordered the 3.2 CD (I broke down and bought the Complete FreeBSD too). I did all of this YESTERDAY at 6:00PM (eastern). And then, LESS THAN SIX HOURS LATER, they update it to 3.3.

    Just my luck.

    Sorry for the rant, you can moderate me down now.
  • The various BSDs all maintain fairly decent websites (freebsd.org, netbsd.org, openbsd.org). My personal BSD of choice, FreeBSD, has an expansive online documentation resource, which you can also install to your local machine as an option during the setup program.

    Also, #freebsd on EFnet IRC contains many people who are willing to help...just be sure you read the man pages first about whatever you're asking. Nothing's more annoying than a user who throws a fit because he can't figure out how to do something which is clearly explained in the relevant man pages.

  • The Linux Emporium [linuxemporium.co.uk] has got stock of 3.2, although I don't think it is a big mover.
  • It sais news for nerds, stuff that matters. NOT linux news. This matters!
  • No big deal. Just install from your 3.2 CD, and then start reading up in that wonderful book you got about how to CVSup your FreeBSD source tree. It will update all your sources to the latest versions available (even newer than 3.3-RELEASE if any changes have been committed to the servers). It can take a little while on a slow connection to update everything, but if you leave it running overnight you should be OK.

    Once you've got your source updated, just cd /usr/src ; make world and wait for it to finish. Then read in that book again on how to configure and build a fresh kernel, do that, reboot, and whammo! You've got 3.3!

  • I guess I was trying to say that there are provisions for *BSD to run Linux executables, thus making them potentially compatible in Userland.

  • I've generally found that these guys [dgc-nms.co.uk] are fairly good. They're based in the north of England, and do next-day delivery for a good price. You might have to wait a while before they get the CDs though - they often ship them some time after Walnut Creek, so 3.3 might not be available until November.

    (Okay Rob, you got free advertising, where are my discounted CDs? *grin*)

    --
    This isn't the post you're looking for. Move along.
  • Isn't that via a compatability layer rather than true similarities? I believe the BSD API is sufficiently different from the SYSV/Linux (not quite the same thing) API that one side or the other would have to either change their entire API (yeah, right, hell will go through several cycles of freazing/thawing before that happens), or provide some sort of compatability layer, possibly through dynamic linking. I don't actually know enough to give an authorative answer.
  • Why is it that you want Ultra-DMA but not plain DMA? According to what I know the two are exactly the same thing except for the maximum sustained data transfer rate.

    The fastest Ultra DMA drive on the planet (I think that is an IBM 7200 rpm) cannot sustain more than 16.6 MB/s.

    You can see that for yourself if you issue the following benchmark:

    date; dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/null bs=1024 count=100000; date

    So there really is no point to switch to BSD because of DMA support. In fact you can apply RAID patches to the Linux kernel which will allow extremely fast software RAID-0.

    • If you're about to argue about the hardware cached reads: that is really not an issue since the drive will cache only around 512 kB while the kernel caches around 100 times as much, provided you have some RAM left over.

    • Unlike SCSI, adding more ATA drives to a controller does not increase the traffic on the controller because the drives cannot use the bus at the same time. There is no need to increase the MB/s.
  • Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.
    -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum, Computer Networks, Second Edition, p. 57

    In Cramer's series on TCP/IP, I seem to recall an analysis done of the use of carrier pigeons to carry "information traffic" between an observatory in the mountains and a more normally "connected" site, and it didn't prove out as badly as one might expect. In the days when data-oriented communications infrastructure was a rarity, and cell phones out of "Dick Tracy," there were some creative answers.

    I remember hearing the possibly-apocryphal tale that New Zealand's Usenet news feed was, for a time, fed via tapes that were flown in from Australia on a weekly basis.

    Long and short is that I would be reluctant to underestimate the ingenuity of those that would do peculiar things with bandwidth in New Zealand...

  • I am currently running FreeBSD in vmware with a 600Meg partition. I have 3.2 and just got it installed last week. args! I wonder if there is really a reason for me to upgrade to 3.3 from 3.2, since I do not use it as my primary system. I am going to use this to learn FreeBSD. FreeBSD is a little different in setup and configuration, than Linux, not that there is anything wrong with that, it is just going to take me time to adjust and get used to the way they do things. So while I do I still want my system to function the way it is now. When I learn FreeBSD I may swithc from Linux to it, or maybe not, I am not sure. Depends if FreeBSD will run vmware to run NT :-).

    As I have always said each OS has its plusses and minuses. I just happen to use each OS to reap the benifits of differing systems.

  • The way DOS systems go, you need Zip, RAR, ACE, ARJ, LZH, TAR/gzip, and a few others to be able to download any piece of software at random off the net and stand a chance of decompressing it...

    Actually any decent ZIP program decompresses most if not all of these whereas gzip and bzip behave rather snobbishly talking only to themselves.
  • natd is maintained... as mentioned before, it executes in user space, so it's easy to hack up yourself. (basically it's a front-end to libalias) active mode ftp (outbound) works for me, and has since 2.2.7 (the first kernel version Then again, sometimes ICQ works without my ugly port configuration, so maybe I'm just lucky.
  • The BSD userland is the userland that originated with 4.4BSD and before that, Net/2. The userland was aimed at being a clone of the existing Unix userland which could be redistributed freely. In some cases, compatability was sacraficed for a "better way".

    The GNU userland aims to be minimally POSIX then everything else possible afterwards. Most of the GNU utilities compile without error under the assored BSDs.

    Linux uses the GNU userland primarily and BSD uses the BSD userland primarily. Each one borrows from the other where their own is incomplete.

  • Re:UDMA Support for Aladdin IV?? Anybody? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Slightly off-topic, my apologies...
    I was under the impression that UDMA (33Mb/s or whatever) was for short bursts only, and thus unsustainable. Thus reverts back to the standard speed for sustained transfers 'cos of the inherent limitations.

  • I was just thinking the same thing myself. What a pleasant change of pace to have a positive, exchange of information on the subject without a lot of flame crap.

    Warms the heart...
  • 'cause it's an anonymous post that hasn't been moderated. Anonymous posts start at 0, others start at 1
  • Well, if this is trickier than people have made it out to be here. I'd like to hear about it.

    With all the application vendors enthusiastically supporting Linux, a *BSD with a Linux "personality" might be a marketable thing.

    Of course, cultural differences might make this difficult. *BSD supporters might prefer a Linux with a *BSD "personality", or perhaps they would prefer no Linux at all.

  • Works perfectly here. I do most my work on this laptop, after adding another 128m of RAM. (StarOffice and Netscape used simultaneously with only 32 meg of RAM is *not* pretty, no matter what OS you have. ;)

    I've never had a bit of trouble with it, other than finding out where the BIOS configuration screen was.
  • > Oh, that's it.... someone just _has_ to do a Celebrity Deathmatch-esque sketch of that. :)

    Oh please ... let it happen! Not that I really want either of them to loose, however I think the idea has *great* humour potential!
  • Actually, it is just FreeBSD that's having the problem. The machine in question hosts Win95, BeOS, Linux and FreeBSD. XFree 3.3.5 under linux is okay.

  • I tried to install FreeBSD the other day to play with it again, but it won't sit in my extended partition. Is that possible yet?

  • I've done the install over a 28.8 phoneline several times. Usually it takes around 4-5hours. Not to bad. Just start it around midnight and go to bed. In the morning it is done.
  • On FreeBSD they have both a Handbook and FAQ. Both are excellent. The Handbook will guide you step by step through almost everything you will need as a beginner. One of the best things about FreeBSD is that all the resources are very good and in one place. Check out the FreeBSD website. You can also get the Compete Guide to FreeBSD by Greg Lehy, it is very very good. A little pricy, but comes with the CDs and everything. Excellent resource to have.
  • FreeBSD has "Linux EMU" which is actually binary compatability. So most linux bins will run just fine under FreeBSD (I only say most because I have not tried all, but have never seen a problem). I believe that NetBSD and OpenBSD also have emu but I am only 99.9% certain. Also to note, since it's binary compatability and not really "emulation" in the traditional sense (virtual machine, etc) there is no speed detriment noticable. Some things run slightly slower, some things run slightly faster. Each OS has it's strengths and weaknesses, so speed differential depends mostly on what the app does. For the most part it's not noticable regardless.

    As far as having a Linux personality, most every *BSD user I know that is worth their weight in salt, tries to avoid doing Linux-type things. A lot of linux users (NOTE: not bashing OS, just making observation about users that I've seen and heard about) do things in a very linux way. Lack of regard for orderly (proper as defined by pretty much every other "flavor" of unix) filesystems and directory heirarchies is relatively common. So for that reason, a *BSD with a Linux "personality" would not be desired by most seasoned *BSD users. I myself had the linux "beat out of me" and have been part of "beating the linux out of someone" a number of times. They usually either thank me later (once they get used to *BSD and know their way around) or get frustrated quickly and go back to Linux.

    On the subject of wanting a Linux with a *BSD "personality". It makes no difference to me as I doubt I'd go back to Linux even with it. I don't think it would hurt anything, but i doubt many aged linux users would happily switch, for the same reason most aged *BSD users would not switch to a Linux "personality". As far as no linux goes, we like linux. It provides lots of good press for free OSes in general as well as commercial software support.

    Anyhow, not trying to bash, just trying to answer your questions/address your comments. So please take it as such.

    DWRM
  • Upgrade using CVS and learn how easy it is to do a "make world". You'll also get to learn all about the simplicity of recompiling the kernel. I've done it a few times. Works perfectly every time. If you want to learn FreeBSD, this is a most worthly leason. Go read the Handbook on using CVS. Lots of little steps, but it is pretty easy once you get into it.

  • Re:Hmmm, (Score:1)

    by cmc ( 44956 )
    Also, what's there to be negative about?

    People are negative that it's not Linux. Browse any BSD story at -1 and you'll see what I mean.
  • There's an iso of the first (most important) CD on ftp.freebsd.org - check the announcement notes.

    Also, I'd invite you to give the install another shot - it's not a perfect installer, but it's also not that confusing if you read the screen :)

    The installer is only of course a once-off, so once you get past that you're running free in the wide world of FreeBSD itself :-)
  • A troll is a troll, no matter what OS they use.
    They'll say anything to stir up trouble, it
    doesn't matter what OS they PERSONALLY use.

    Just ignore them, like real leeches they'll
    shrivel up and die if you don't give them more
    blood to suck on.
    --
    Brandon Hume
    hume -> BOFH.Halifax.NS.Ca, http://WWW.BOFH.Halifax.NS.Ca/
  • I doubt it. KPPP isn't even in the ports collection. Really, the scripting isn't that hard. Follow the instructions in the Handbook, remember to make the device and you should be set. I've done it many many times. There are sample scripts and everything install by default that you just need rename and edit the lines with your username, password, and phone number
  • I'm not an experienced Linux user. In fact, I have a lot more time invested in BSD derived systems than I do Linux, primarily SunOS 4 and Dec Ultrix. I do know what you mean about the file heirarchies on Linux vs. BSD systems.

    That being said, I have to take issue with your post. It's tone and the clear implications you are making.

    I really hate it when people are disingenous. It's a form of dishonesty, and it's one of the most difficult to really call someone on because they invariably fall back on a hurt tone saying something like "Oh, there, there, you took it the wrong way. Well, I'm sorry that I stepped on your rather delicate sensitivities".

    In your case, you claim to be

    ...,not trying to bash, just trying to answer your questions/address your comments. So please take it as such.

    But then, when you've read what you've said, saying that Linux users have "a lack of regard for orderly filesystems and directory heirarchies" and saying that you've "had the Linux beat out" of you. Now, what is it that is normally beat out of someone? Are you saying, in your not-so-clever way that Linux is equivalent to that thing that normally fills in the sentence "I had the ____ beat out of me."?

    I don't mind people having strong opinions. Particularly well founded ones that are backed up by experience. What I have a problem with is someone who uses innuendo and outright insults and then claims to be "not trying to bash".

    It's pretty clear to me from what I read here that there are a lot of people in the "Linux community" that want to learn what they can from the *BSD community. Sure, there's the odd, "Linux rulez, BSD dr00lz." post here, but by and large, there people on /. have been very receptive to positive BSD news. I get the strong impression from the *BSD zealots that they feel that they have little or nothing to learn from the Linux Community. You yourself say that "...we like Linux. It provides lots of good press for free OSes in general as well as commercial software support." Is that the best thing you can say about Linux, that it has a good mindshare?

    In the future, I would appreciate it if, when you're bashing, do it and say you are. If you're not bashing, try to take care not to say things that are most easily interpreted "the wrong way".

  • Personally, I think its the other way around.

    I think linux will survive no more than 2 more years

    A good number of non-cluebies have already left, if you don't believe me, lurk in #freebsd and #linux.


    I think things will be really different in 2 years.

    Of course, who know what'll be king in 4? :D

  • Yes, it actually does.

    More seriously, the changes are not significant.

    I've never had a problem running linux binaries with 3.2-S


    we've gone from 99% to 99.5% :D

  • 1. I saw mention of packet filtering changes in the release notes.

    2. Are the ipfw/natd maintained?

    You answered your own question.
  • But then, when you've read what you've said, saying that Linux users have "a lack of regard for orderly
    filesystems and directory heirarchies" and saying that you've "had the Linux beat out" of you. Now, what
    is it that is normally beat out of someone? Are you saying, in your not-so-clever way that Linux is
    equivalent to that thing that normally fills in the sentence "I had the ____ beat out of me."?

    As in, "Beat [habit|quality|secret|etc] out of me."

    Must you look for negative comments where there aren't any?

  • CVS is wonderful in that it only downloads the necessary changes. Granted, 3.2 was released in May, but it probably won't take all night.

  • It's been -STABLE and "stable" since January this year.

    Prior to that, the 2.2.X branch was -STABLE and 3.X was -CURRENT.

    The -CURRENT (ie, development) branch is 4.X.
  • Must you look for negative comments where there aren't any?

    Hmmm... Why do I do this?

    I dunno. It beats the quality out of me.

  • This is stupid... very stupid. There are arrogant people on both sides of the issue and this is very unfortunate. If you look past the /.ers to who really runs FreeBSD, you will see much appreciation for Linux. Jordon Hubbard, our fearless leader, has stated many many times his feelings about Linux. He tells companies to "port first to Linux" before porting to FreeBSD. I think that is the type of respect and togetherness most real FreeBSD users feel towards Linux. I'm sure you can find the quote if you use the newsgroup search on the FreeBSD homepage. It may be even in the Handbook or FAQ. I've seen him, personally not quoted, many times.
  • Well, I'm saddened by the blatant troll postings by some of the BSD users. As always, it boils down to,
    "yay new release. Glad those Linux kiddies aren't awake to flame. They suck. Our daemon would kill that
    penguin. We rule. Slashdot is only Linux news."

    Yes, SOME, of them. Not all of them, and certainly not the people behind it.

    And as always, they're wrong. I like Linux, and I'm curious to try a BSD. I've even contemplated merging
    some parts of OpenBSD and Slackware. Yet the moment I think that since the OS isn't so bad, the people
    behind aren't -- they prove me wrong.

    Are they? They weren't serious about "Slashdot is only Linux news." They were repeating what many Linux users have said here in the past. They are an exception. Everything has exceptions. Let it go already.
    "
    "We all know the daemon would kill the penguin."

    Have you no sense of humor? Sure, just keep flaming away there, buddy. How is that flaming? It's damned funny if you ask me. Two stuffed plushies duking it out. Beastie shoots flame (maybe you meant that, who knows) out of his eyes, Tux counters with an ball of ice ala SubZero, etc. Lighten up will ya?

    Sure, just keep flaming away there, buddy. I know you have a chip on your shoulder because the BSD
    daemon isn't being flashed around, and because there are not BSD word expoes going on.


    You just "know" the inner workings of his mind eh? Actually, this sounds more like bragging than an accusation of jealousy.

    By the way, don't forget to register for FreeBSDCon '99 [freebsdcon.com]

    But is it so hard
    to just contribute something usefull to a discussion of the new release of FreeBSD?

    Heh...now THAT'S funnyl.

  • Re:Whee! (Score:1)

    by ajs ( 35943 )
    FreeBSD will eventually fall to its competition.

    After all:

    1. It lacks the BSoD [fh-heilbronn.de] (even given the attempt to indicate compatibility with BSoD-enabled systems through a misleading name).
    2. Its mascot is a cute, little devil. That's DEVIL, folks. Just ask Phil Foglio [mckusick.com]! It's SATAN! Prince of lies! (Hmmm... I feel a filk coming on: "BSD Went Down to Georgia", based on the old urban legend about the woman who walked into a diner in texas wearing the Daemon on a shirt)
    3. It's too fast to promote conventional chip design bloat [theregister.co.uk].
    4. GNOME [nslug.ns.ca] doesn't run as stably on BSD as it does on Linux, and we can't figure out how to load background images if we don't have GNOME! (xload...WHAT?)
    5. Two words: Splash Screen [openresources.com]. Where's the cute flying widgets in space while my diagnostics are being packaged up and thrown into /dev/null? Or, at least the smiling computer icon.


    Clearly this OS is not ready for prime-time, and if we want to go with a well-supported, commercial-grade operating system, we'll have to look elsewhere. Meanwhile, you BSD fanatics can keep trying to convince us that Yahoo! and Hotmail aren't running on MacOS, just like the Army.

    PS: In case you didn't get it: ;-)
  • I believe the BSD API is sufficiently different from the SYSV/Linux (not quite the same thing) API that one side or the other would have to either change their entire API (yeah, right, hell will go through several cycles of freazing/thawing before that happens), or provide some sort of compatability layer, possibly through dynamic linking.

    The APIs are quite similar - UNIX-flavored OSes don't have immense differences between their APIs, these days, and at least some of the differences (e.g., signal()) can be dealt with by using shiny new POSIX replacements that work the same (or, at least, should work the same) on all of them.

    For example, read() is read(), getpwnam() is getpwnam(), etc. - neither OS would have to completely change those for compatibility.

    The application binary interfaces might be different, e.g. the layout of a stat structure might be different, which is why there's a compatibility layer.

  • ftp://freebsd@128.253.254.56/3.3-insta ll.cd0 [128.253.254.56]

    SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers

  • ftp://freebsd@128.253.254.56/3.3-insta ll.cd0 [128.253.254.56] (643MB)

    SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers

  • I'm sure you've seen this if you've read over the rest of the thread, but just to be sure it is said, you can easily install your 3.2-RELEASE system, hook it up to any halfway reasonable internet connection ( let a modem run overnight ) and use the CVSup utility to upgrade the source tree on your system to the latest one held on the central FreeBSD CVS system or it's mirrors. Assuming changes have already been made, this will give you system sources that are actually newer than 3.3-RELEASE!. Then build yourself a custom kernel from the new sources, along with a 'make world' and you're set. You've got the shiniest new FreeBSD box on the planet... Consult the relevant sections of the FreeBSD Handbook for details.

    "Binaries may die but source code lives forever"
    -- Unknown

    SkyHawk
    Andrew Fremantle
  • I've been looking for something like this for ages, especially if my DSL provider starts metering my bandwidth.

    Thank you ever so much for the link..

    ps : I looked, but could find no answers. Anyone know if Linux is capable of this kind of activity?

    I go RTFM on the Drawbridge now..

    "Binaries may die but source code lives forever"
    -- Unknown

    SkyHawk
    Andrew Fremantle
  • I got my announcement...
  • I feel for you. I just installed 3.2, and then one of the first email messages I got after the install was a bugfix announcement that indicated that the fixes would be available shortly in 3.3. I screamed. Then I realized that there really wasn't much in 3.3 that I cared about anyway. Then I was happy again. ;)
  • Looking through the release notes, I would say that there really isn't enough changes in 3.3 to justify upgrading unless you have a device that was not supported by 3.2 but is supported by 3.3. That said, I also agree that CVSUP is a valueable thing to learn. So if you decide to upgrade, do it for the learning experience, not for the upgrade itself.

    In addition, if you are going to try CVSUP, I would recommend that you wait a few weeks before doing so. Those people who have good reason to install right away (not me!) will appreciate you not taking up the limited bandwidth.
  • I use FreeBSD 2.2.8 so I can't speak for 3.3 but KDE is in the ports collection and KPPP is installed along with KDE. I used to use FreeBSD with icewm and later used Window Maker. I just installed the KDE port a day ago. It took a while to install with my 33.6 modem but the installation using the ports collection was flawless. However, I haven't managed to get KPPP to work yet. It seems to hang when initializing the modem. This is KDE 1.0, though, perhaps there are some bugs that are not present in KDE 1.1 which I am used to using under Linux.
    FreeBSD is well worth trying, though. With my 2.2.8 release it's a bit more work to get things running but I enjoy it anyway. I also find the installation pretty easy. I don't know why some people find it difficult. If you want a tricky installation try OpenBSD 2.4.

    Regards
  • bzip/gzip would have to include non-free code to be able to uncompress the file types you use as examples. It is not snobbish at all.
  • I've compiled a list of places you can download the FreeBSD CD images:

    http://www.instinct.org/~pgl/freebsd-i sos.html [instinct.org]

    There are a few sites out there that carry the full set of CDs, and the official distribution site has the first and most important CD image (ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub /FreeBSD/releases/i386/ISO-IMAGES/ [freebsd.org]).

    --

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