Metawire.org Admin On OpenBSD Hosting 84
hext0r writes "Open Hosting provider metawire.org administrator Daniel Selans recently wrote an informative article for the OpenBSD Journal about the difficulties and successes in running a free hosting provider using OpenBSD. It's an informative read for anyone considering starting any type of hosting company using free technologies."
*BSD IS UNDYING (Score:2, Interesting)
I think this article confirms it. Just check where it's posted: http://undeadly.org/ [undeadly.org], doesn't that light some lights!?
One thing that I can most definatelly note is that with the use of OpenBSD, the experience was made by far simpler, and headache free. The common belief out there is that OpenBSD is best used for security gateways, firewalls, router
Re:What I know about *BSD: (Score:1, Informative)
1) No you cannot play a ton of commercial games, however you can play UT, Half-Life and so forth.
2)Grandma better learn a little about unix.
3)Lacks gui? Gnome 2.6 is there KDE 3.2.x is there, so is Windowmaker, Xfce. Check out the ports collection at www.freebsd.org/ports and well will see what exists.
4) Support? There a few commercial support sites for FreeBSD, I wont list any because this isnt a commercial. You have tons of mailing lists and boards were you can post your questi
Re:Hey Mr Troll ! (Score:1)
Nitpick (Score:4, Interesting)
I didn't see anything negative in that article. Nor any major "difficulties". He made it sound like it was a breeze - just put together a bunch of scripts and it's all done.
PS: I love OpenBSD. Like Daniel, I also use it as both a server and a desktop workstation. I just wish people would RTFA.
Re:Nitpick (Score:3, Interesting)
How does OpenBSD handle package management? Is it conducive to compiling everything by hand? Are there any serious packages that OpenBSD lacks? Will I have a lot of trouble if I want to use example_package-3.1.5 but the package system only has e
Re:Nitpick (Score:5, Insightful)
The package system is also very nice. OpenBSD audits the packages that are included to protect against retarded local exploits. OpenBSD doesn't trust third party packages and this shows in its track record of local and remote root priveledge escalation's. Third party software is often overlooked as a flaw with Open Source software. Every day we hear about a new Microsoft Outlook hole, but nothing ever gets mentioned on slashdot on how XMMS allows arbitrary code execution. This kind of stuff happens all the time, but is often overlooked because most people running servers don't let their users do anything.
As a free hosting provider like we try to be, we wanted to give the users as much access to the system as we could safely allow. This has been both a hinderance and a help. Having a truely open provider available for users has helped us grow at an exponential rate. But we have to be very concerned about every local vulnerability that exists.
Re:Nitpick (Score:2)
Just pick one of the BSDs and try it out. Noone knows what's best for you but yourself.
Re:Nitpick (Score:4, Insightful)
Package management? The ports collection is awesome. Installation is, honestly, very easy. The pkg_add command takes care of everything (at least in my experience).
Compiling _everything_? I can't answer this one. Compiling all your programs (minus the libraries, etc) went very smoothly for me.
As for lacking serious packages...I haven't found anything that I needed that I couldn't get, but that's me. Most of the time, if you're package won't work on OpenBSD, there is some sort of BSD licensed equivalent that works well.
If the package version you want is not available, you can always recompile, but the amount of packages and their different available versions is astoundingly huge.
One of the biggest advantages of OpenBSD? The documentation is beautiful. They really weren't messing around with this. Not only is the documentation abundant, the quality is really nice. There are examples and troubleshooting tips all over the place (in the man pages).
It runs on essentially anything, so grab an old machine and play with it, I think you'll find most things are intuitive.
--Mx
Re:Nitpick (Score:2)
The purpose of your system and your personal inclinations should guide your choice of BSD. If you want cutting edge software then OpenBSD may not be for you, because it stresses stability over recency. It's so conservative in this regard it makes Debian-stable seem daring.
Re:Nitpick (Score:5, Informative)
Even as a big Debian fan, I still have to admit OpenBSD has newer software than Debian Woody.
OpenBSD ain't bad, it comes out every 6 months and is usually fairly up to date.
Re:Nitpick (Score:3, Informative)
Wrong. 99% of the OpenSSH vulnerablities don't affect OpenBSD. I can't tell you the specifics, but the reason is basicl
Re:Nitpick (Score:2)
Examples? I've read the announcements. There's one where OpenBSD is immune (only affects openssh-portable), but the others I read don't indicate that OpenBSD is immune.
So I don't see how OpenBSD is much more secure than FreeBSD.
Some pointers would be helpful.
Here's some pointers. (Score:1)
Try this, install openbsd and freebsd, and count how many setuid root apps are installed on each. Does apache chroot() on freebsd? Do bind, syslog, tcpdump, X and probably a couple other things I am forgetting have priviledge seperation like openssh? Has freebsd thouroug
Re:Nitpick (Score:1, Interesting)
I use OpenBSD for just about every task imaginable (and the other BSDs and various Linux flavors as well BTW). These days the only big software package I can think of that isn't working on OpenBSD is OpenOffice (related to some problem with the OpenOffice build system I think
Re:Nitpick (Score:5, Informative)
All in all though, it has been extremely smoothe and the users all seem to be appreciative.
One of the biggest challenges for us was getting a good userbase. We found that the majority of our users were from countries like Romania and Poland who just wanted a shell account to run a BNC and then never log in again. This went against everything we created Metawire FOR, which was to create a community of like-minded computer enthusiasts.
There have been some problems, but OpenBSD has helped to aleviate the majority of them.
Re:Nitpick (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Nitpick (Score:1, Insightful)
Which OS is Fastest -- FreeBSD Follow-Up
http://www.samag.com/documents/sam0108 q
What most people forget is that *BSD are configured for stability and it is up to the admin to tweak for performance. And performance depends on what kind of server you are going to be running.
Re:The problem with BSD is its ports system (Score:4, Informative)
Because of the way ports and packages are designed this complation issue of yours does not happen.
You do not need to configure anything to compile a port, you need to run "make install" after enabling root permissions or getting sudo setup.
Packages are not the norm by any stretch of the imagination for anyone I know that uses a BSD. Installing a pkg works fine as long as you also have the dependancies it will just install the same as if you made from a port and I have never found a port in the 3.3 release that installs broken not bad for the 193 I use for my desktop.
The only messed up compile I've ever seen is xmame+xmess, which my machine could not handle cause it doesn't have enough resources to compile it.
OpenBSD is equally able to use the ports and pkgs in it's system because the system was designed for Open.
Re:The problem with BSD is its ports system (Score:2)
Sounds like you need to look into ulimit...
Re:The problem with BSD is its ports system (Score:1)
Re:OpenBSD developers should also appeal for fundi (Score:1, Informative)
If you are willing to donate money, OpenBSD donations [openbsd.org] is the place to go.
Of course, buying CDs, t-shirts or posters also helps the project. Look at the catalog here [openbsd.org].
Re:New *BSD Anthem (Score:1)
The song's been covered like 4 times, but Wayne wrote it and performed it first.
Read the following for more information: http://www.tsimon.com/lastkiss.htm [tsimon.com]
Considering the work required to make a relyricing, I would have at least thought you'd do a little reading up on the song.
Amen. (Score:5, Interesting)
Metawire is simply exactly what it says on the tin. Free, and amazing shell hosting, have them for an email account, or your website, for hosting scripts and whatever else you can think of.
Great service.
The cost is picked up by the administrators themselves, and it's ran extremely professionally with complete regard for their users.
Simply by the services they allow you can see that OpenBSD is a great OS for just about anything and everything.
Re:Amen. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Agreed and please donate (Score:2, Insightful)
I just signed up for an account and have been very pleased. It sounded to good to be true, but its been great. But if people don't eventually donate, it may not be able to continue in the long run, so please consider that. They seem fine now, but lets keep it that way.
Sign up, contribute, and eventually donate if you like at:
http://metawire.org/donate.php [metawire.org]
Ack! (Score:5, Interesting)
I guess we can consider the fact that it's still up a testament to OpenBSD
In all seriousness, though, OpenBSD has been a blessing for running Metawire. I joined the admin team a few months ago, after having been a lowly user and an active member of the community since last year, and have found (as Danny put so well in his article) that the biggest challenges in terms of maintaining a secure and stable server with thousands of users are well met by a system with a philosophy like OpenBSD's.
The challenges that OpenBSD and a proper user management system (which I have been an active developer on since I was made an admin) can not handle are those that plague any provider of a free service, namely the ages-old Tragedy of the Commons [dieoff.com].
Garret Hardin's prophetic essay deals mainly with the human tendency for one to maximize the usage of any communal space for his own personal gain, and at the same time to shirk the responsibilities of its upkeep since it is not "his". As this applies to being a free shell provider on the Internet, you have to deal constantly with users who apply, abuse the service, are given the boot, and then show up again. As far as they are concerned it is a common space, freely available, for which they are not responsible. Since they do not take ownership in any sense, what responsibility to they have to keep things OK for others?
The "tragedy of the commons" manifests itself in the biggest administrative headaches the team has had to face so far. People signing up to use bandwidth-hogging psyBNCs/IRC proxies to get past bans on networks or keep nicknames alive, people using our service to mailbomb, people using it to host illegal materials... Had they been using a paid shell (which are widely available) for which they had some degree of "ownership" and at least an implied responsibility to follow the rules, their behavior might be less destructive, but because they are using a free resource, they feel unburdened by any responsibility towards other users and the administrative staff.
I could let these failings of human nature get me down, but thankfully there is another tool which can fill in where OpenBSD fails. Perhaps even the vagaries of man can be overcome...
by Perl
By the numbers (Score:1, Interesting)
"Only one remote hole in the default install, in more than 7 years!"
Please list all of your superior OS' that can match that this track record.
I await your list/answers!!
Re:By the numbers (Score:1, Funny)
AmigaOS
the OS the C64 had
the OS my toaster uses
Windows XP with the network cable unplugged
Debian (all versions) default kernel, base only
*Looks as though BSD is then, dying.
from their webpage update, FYI (Score:1)
"Metawire User Upgrade 01 Apr 2004 by blister
Metawire has recently gotten a corporate sponsor, Microsoft, who is going to be putting the administration on a paid salary as well as provide hardware, software, and money for bandwidth for us to promote hosting on the superior Microsoft platform. Metawire will be going through a 2 week upgrade to the new server farm, at the end of which we will be transferring all email and webhosting to the new servers. Everyone show your thanks
Re:from their webpage update, FYI (Score:2)
Congrats.
-Eric
Re:from their webpage update, FYI (Score:2)
Re:from their webpage update, FYI (Score:1)
Slightly off-topic... (Score:2)