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Operating Systems Software BSD Hardware

Chock Full o' NetBSD! 215

Posted by timothy from the there-are-other-islands-y'know dept.
jschauma writes "While it's no Indigo Espresso or a VAX Bar (though, of course, there is NetBSD/sgimips and NetBSD/vax), at least you can log in on a Mr. Coffee. And while the JavaStation has been running NetBSD for a while, full support is now completely in-tree: NetBSD's Martin Husemann announced today that he has fixed all outstanding issues with JavaStation support. This means, that you can now run your JavaStation with a stock distribution of NetBSD/sparc. The JavaStation-NC is a network computer class machine built on the microSPARC-IIep processor. More information about the JavaStation can be found in the JavaStation HOWTO, Martin's email to the port-sparc mailing list and Valeriy E. Ushakov's paper 'Porting NetBSD to JavaStation-NC.'"
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Chock Full o' NetBSD! More

Chock Full o' NetBSD!

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  • Very good (Score:3, Interesting)

    by after ( 669640 ) on Sunday December 14, 2003 @04:44AM (#7715171) Journal
    I use a BSD system for my server, and I find that the ports collection is somthing that is extremely usefull for any system administrator that wants to save time.

    I dont want to downlaod dependencies, I wan the computer to do it, and this is why it is so great.

    thank you!

  • Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)

    by iamdrscience ( 541136 ) on Sunday December 14, 2003 @04:51AM (#7715186) Homepage
    NetBSD's got my coffee maker on-lock, but it looks like my dishwasher will be safe for a little while longer. NetBSD should produce a full kitchen appliance set. I would buy it, just as long as I don't have to compile anything (recompiling your kernel on a blender takes surprisingly long).

    • Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Fulkkari ( 603331 ) on Sunday December 14, 2003 @07:48AM (#7715529)
      I would buy it, just as long as I don't have to compile anything (recompiling your kernel on a blender takes surprisingly long).

      Even though compiling a custom kernel on your blender may take a while, you could always cross-compile the kernel [netbsd.org] on your relatively fast microwave oven.

    • "(recompiling your kernel on a blender takes surprisingly long)"

      I don't know what you're problem is, compiling a kernel on my blender (Blendfast 2k3 HT-compatible) is faster than on my current machine (athlon tbird 700). Note: my blender cost much much more than my computer.
      The blender is much faster (Basically due to the hyperthreading) that I cross compile the kernel for my computer on my blender.

      I'm guessing you either need a new blender or you have way too many optimizations enabled.

  • a cool hack for sure, but not very useful i think (Score:3, Funny)

    by Indy1 ( 99447 ) on Sunday December 14, 2003 @04:59AM (#7715197)
    I checked ebay, and i didnt find anything doing a search for the terms "mr coffee sparc". Also, the specs of these java machines is pretty poor, no better then most of the x86 boxes that were running around 95-96.

    • You might want to check Ebay for Javastation rather than Mr Coffee. The latter was just the Sun code name for that particular Javastation (Krups being the other model IIRC).

      The low spec is irrelevant on a machine like this, as it is nothing more than a thin client. I occasionally use a similar NCD ThinStar to login to one of the development servers at work. The client runs nothing more than WinCE and an X server, and all the apps are run on the server.

      Chris

    • Re:a cool hack for sure, but not very useful i thi (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Well, in general, you are right.

      NetBSD also runs on machines like Dreamcast or Playstation -- and I doubt anyone at a serious enterprise would consider running his/hers business using game consoles. Why does NetBSD community does that? Because it is fun, because people do have unused hardware, which becomes great when it has unix installed, because they _can_.

      Porting software to NetBSD's pkgsrc collection [pkgsrc.org] brings also a great deal of _learning_ - if you introduce patches, you cannot think just about one pla

  • Re:netbsd ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 14, 2003 @04:59AM (#7715199)
    NetBSD is much, much more portable than 'Linux' if you refer to an Operating System, and not just a Kernal. 'NetBSD' represents a kernal and a complete base userland, all under one unified seamless source tree. Linux, on the other hand, is a kernal, and any number of different utilities and packages lumped together. There are dozens of versions of 'Linux' just for the x86, let alone the variations when you move from one architecture to another, whereas there is one NetBSD port for each platform, and all the NetBSD ports consist of base userlands compiled from the same source tree.

    Hope this makes sense. What it means in the final analysis is that I can (almost) tar up the /etc directory from a NetBSD 1.6 Sparc machine and expand it into the /etc directory of any x86 or 68000 or MIPS or PPC NetBSD 1.6 machine and it will just work

    49640+5012614
    • Don't use NetBSD myself, but I'm curious. What are the differences?

      • Re:netbsd ... (Score:4, Informative)

        by LizardKing ( 5245 ) on Sunday December 14, 2003 @06:41AM (#7715383)

        Don't use NetBSD myself, but I'm curious. What are the differences?

        Compared to Linux, there is only one NetBSD distribution. Companies like Wasabi Systems may offer branded copies of a release, but they contain the same software as the ISO images found on the NetBSD ftp servers. Another key difference is that the NetBSD project maintains an entire operating system, rather than Linus Torvalds and his loose knit team, who concern themseles almost exclusively with the Linux kernel itself. The NetBSD approach leads to a greater consistency and closer integration of kernel and userland. The downsides are that third party software which NetBSD relies on (gcc for instance), often takes a while to update to new releases while Linux'isms are worked out.

        The NetBSD project is based around a core team, and peer review is encouraged before any changes are commited by non-core developers. This leads to a very consistent, clear code base that conforms to number of good coding practices. For instance, the NetBSD kernel drivers liberally use #defines for addresses and registers, while Linux doesn't frown on undocumented magic numbers. The Linux style makes supporting someone elses code a nightmare, unless you're very familiar with the hardware the driver is for.

        The NetBSD project has a server farm dedicated to autobuilds, and it is easy for port masters (people concerned with NetBSD on a particular platform) to see when the development version has broken for their platform. In the Linux world, as long as x86 works the other platforms are considered secondary. This is why I run NetBSD on my non-x86 hardware - I got pissed off with Linux claiming fot support a platform when it had clearly been broken for months.

        Finally, there is the pkgsrc collection. This allows me to install all the software I need, confident that it has been tested (and patched if necessary). The dependency tracking of pkgsrc makes the much vaunted Debian Linux look very ho-hum in comparison.

        Chris

        • uhg. Oops. Should have been less ambiguous. I meant what are the differences to /etc between platforms (namely i386 and SPARC)? I don't use NetBSD, but I used to (1.6.1, stopped using it because that box died) and I currently use OpenBSD. I'm considering purchasing some SPARC hardware* for another OpenBSD system.

          I'm assuming OpenBSD will have some more weird differences because of all the security.

          I agree about the pkgsrc/ports thing. I used it on NetBSD and I use it now on OpenBSD. I also use Gentoo

          • ... what are the differences to /etc between platforms (namely i386 and SPARC)

            Apart from fstab and the network bits in rc.conf, all the files in /etc that I edit after an install are identical on my SPARC, Vax and x86 machines. There might be minor differences in files that describe devices, but all the files I'm likely to actually edit have the same format regardless of the machines architecture.

            Chris

    • And you can do the same for Redhat Linux 9 to any machine and it will work too. Nice try. Being open source, both BSD and Linux suffer from the too many choices syndrome. Does that /etc work on OpenBSD, FreeBSD and NetBSD? I am ignorantly asking, if you'll forgive me.

      When we look at SuSE vs Redhat vs Debian, etc., we must remind ourselves the myriad of BSDs out on the market as well. I'm still trying to connect exactly what aspects of /etc would be platform specific and would break on other platforms.

    • Re:netbsd ... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by forgotmypassword ( 602349 )
      What it means in the final analysis is that I can (almost) tar up the /etc directory from a NetBSD 1.6 Sparc machine and expand it into the /etc directory of any x86 or 68000 or MIPS or PPC NetBSD 1.6 machine and it will just work

      NetBSD doesn't use fstab?

      XF86Config is portable to different videocards/monitors?

      Not being a NetBSD user, I didn't gain any understanding of what I am missing from that statement. Could you please elaborate.

      • Re:netbsd ... (Score:4, Informative)

        by rthille ( 8526 ) <web-slashdotNO@SPAMrangat.org> on Sunday December 14, 2003 @02:12PM (#7718535) Homepage Journal
        The Original Post did qualify that statement with (almost). NetBSD does use fstab and XF86Config would need to be tuned for different video cards. I run two NetBSD systems without X (qube2's as servers), so that wouldn't be a concern for me. The fstabs between any two boxes depends less on the processor/NetBSD version than on the size of the disk and the partition layout.
        The key with NetBSD is that the configuration differences apply only to the limited area being configured. fstab would need to be changed to deal with differences betwen filesystems on two systems, not CPUs.
        Using the same Linux distro on two different architectures may give the same sort of 'constancy', but typically you can't get one linux distro that runs on all the architectures supported by some linux distro.

  • BSD Rocks! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 14, 2003 @05:22AM (#7715236)
    How can people say BSD [freebsd.org] is dying when it has a mascot [freebsd.org] like this?! Linux [debian.org] needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks [hope-2000.org] and gorgeous babes [hope-2000.org] that BSD [openbsd.org] has to offer!

    You just can't take Linux [redhat.com] seriously when its fronted by losers [nylug.org] like these. Would you buy software from them? I don't think so! You Linux [suse.com] groupies need to find some sexy girls like her [hope-2000.org]! I mean just look at this girl [madchat.org]! Doesn't she [madchat.org] excite you? I know this little hottie [madchat.org] puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox [spilth.org]. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy [spilth.org] little minx [spilth.org]. I mean are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass [dis.org]?!

    With sexy chicks [minions.com] like the lovely Ceren [dis.org] you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD [netbsd.org] if she [dis.org] told you to? Come on, you must admit she [cdslash.net] is better than an overweight penguin [tamu.edu] or a gay looking goat [gnu.org]! Don't you wish you could get one of these [drexel.edu]? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close [dis.org] to such a divine beauty [czarina.org]!

    Join the campaign for more cute [madchat.org] open source babes [madchat.org] today!

  • Was I the only one to ... (Score:4, Funny)

    by boris_the_hacker ( 125310 ) on Sunday December 14, 2003 @05:23AM (#7715237) Homepage
    ... read the topic as "BSD Chock Full o' NetBSD" and assume that, with the recent SCO/Linux issues, that NetBSD was going down the same war path as SCO but with BSD ?

    [cartman] I feel as though SCO has warped my fragile little mind [/cartman]

  • Always nice. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 14, 2003 @05:39AM (#7715264)
    It's always nice to see BSD being used in strange new ways. I like knowing that using it allows me to move to any platforms in the future without any difficulty. With uncertainty of the x86 platform and lack of portability of Linux distributions not to mention little drivers outside of the x86 realm, NetBSD makes a perfect platform. I'm not even going to mention the problems of the GPL license.

    This is why BSD is so great. You have actual portability. It's truly open and free. Stable and secure. Much better code base then Linux with a better development group. The only area it's lacking is XFree86, but in time drivers will come around.

    Fortress of Insanity [homeunix.org]
    • Whoa, best troll I've seen in a while!

      All you other trolls, pay attention to his technique: say things that are (1) on topic, (2) inflammatory, but stated politely, (3) sound sort vaguely like they might be true, or at least aren't obviously false if you're reading quickly and not really paying attention), (4) put the really inflammatory things near the end -- many readers will stop reading early, especially if the beginning is boring, (5) includes a bit of ego stroking for some group while you're at it -

      • Netbsd is nice and portable, but then, so is linux (those of you who have been snoozing for the past 5 years might be surprised); look to debian for a good example.

        Alright, let's look:

        Debian GNU/Linux Ports [debian.org]: 10 editions
        NetBSD [netbsd.org]: 53 editions

  • OK, they've got NetBSD up on the JavaStation. This is no real suprise, "Of course it runs NetBSD".

    A friend of mine just recently came into a bunch of Sunrays... Has anyone figured out if they're good for anything unless you've got a Sparc to hang them off of?

    • SunRays (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I've read the SunRay ROM and disassembled the begining 1st startup, PCI enumeration, etc. When I got distracted I sent materials to Uwe (the BSD guy), he completed the disassembly of the 1st stage, and, I think, uncompressed the 2nd stage with the actual software. It was too tedious to continue. SunRay has only 8MB or RAM. Also, debugging without a serial port is a bitch. So we gave up on it.
    • Next version of the Sun Ray server-side software will supposedly be available for Linux. Wonder if they'll continue the "for peanuts" educational site license with that one.

      They're not bad boxes at all as long as you have a fast sparc around already. Otherwise not much sense unless someone reverse-engineers the protocol (as been partially done by someone AFAIK) or the Linux port materializes and you can get it for a reasonable price.

      The normal price for the server side is like $1500/20 clients, so it rea

  • Alright... (Score:4, Funny)

    by starseeker ( 141897 ) on Sunday December 14, 2003 @10:11AM (#7716341) Homepage
    Who else thought some nut had finally ported NetBSD to a kitchen appliance for real?

  • Javastations. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by saintlupus ( 227599 )
    This means, that you can now run your JavaStation with a stock distribution of NetBSD/sparc.

    Hey, that's cool. I was actually looking at Javastations a while ago as a candidate to add to my "what the hell is that?" hardware collection.

    Unfortunately, they seem to be pretty hard to come by on eBay. Anyone know of a surplus house or anything that's selling off the Javastations at a reasonable price?

    --saint

  • Linux was first on JavaStation (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 14, 2003 @10:22PM (#7721797)
    It's funny that not one commenter noticed that Linux ran on JavaStation long before NetBSD did.

    In fact, Zaitcev (Linux @JS guy) and Uwe (NetBSD @JS guy) are friends, Zaitcev helped Uwe with some elements of the port.

    This really makes all "BSD Rulz" zealots look silly. While they whail, real hackers help each other across the Linux/BSD boundary. What is it in OS for a hacker? Linux and BSDs come and go, hackers remain forever.

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