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Security Operating Systems BSD

OpenBSD Lands $2 Million In DARPA Money 344

Posted by timothy from the laundering-through-pennsylvania dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Canada's National Post is reporting today that DARPA is (indirectly) funding $2-million (US) to Theo de Raadt of OpenBSD. The article is available here." Update: 04/07 21:01 GMT by T : As several readers have pointed out, this blurb should credit instead The Globe and Mail rather than the National Post.
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OpenBSD Lands $2 Million In DARPA Money More

OpenBSD Lands $2 Million In DARPA Money

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  • BSD is dying... (Score:5, Funny)

    by rudib ( 300816 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:00PM (#5679731) Homepage
    ...well, wealthy... I guess...

  • Don't look a gift grant in the mouth (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dtolton ( 162216 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:01PM (#5679736) Homepage
    I don't understand why getting money from DARPA makes them uncomfortable. He mentions it comes with no strings attached.

    Shouldn't we be happy about grants like this that will promote and advance Open Source software in general?
    • Actually, I think that he was just using this as an excuse to publicize his opinions about the war:

      The DARPA grant enabled Mr. de Raadt to add the equivalent of four full-time developers to supplement the work of about 80 volunteers. And although he's happy about the extra support for the project, he's nervous that critics may get the idea he's working for the U.S. military.

      "We're not doing anything for them. They just fund us to do what we do," said Mr. de Raadt, a 35-year-old graduate of the Universi

    • If Debian were to receive a couple million dollars from Bill Gates, there'd be 500 posts here within the first 15 minutes with much more than "uncomfortable" feelings.

      He's worried, and some of the postings here already explain pretty well why, namely those that ask if he's selling out, going commercial, etc.

    • Re:Don't look a gift grant in the mouth (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 47PHA60 ( 444748 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:20PM (#5679856) Journal
      Mr. DeRaadt thinks software should be secure, and that people should be free. He is now being funded in part by DARPA, which is also designing the Total Information Awareness project. Its main platform will probably be OpenBSD. A lot of free software is used for purposes that the original authors might not like.

      So why not question the source of a gift? That shows intelligence, thoughtfulness, and awareness of the effects of one's actions on the wider world.

      I agree that we should be happy for the promotion and improvement of free software, but it is smart of anyone, no matter his or her politics, to keep an eye on the big picture to make sure that one does not explicitly take money to promote an agenda that is abhorrent to his or her morals.
      • If he were taking money to implement DARPA-requested features, I could see the issue. However, if all he's doing is taking no-strings-attached money to do work he'd be doing anyway, I don't see the moral conundrum. If there are any negative effects of his work (OpenBSD being used by TIA, for example), they'd exist even if he wasn't funded by DARPA; the only solution would be to stop developing OpenBSD entirely, not to keep doing it without DARPA funding. So insofar as DARPA funding doesn't change anything, I'd say take it. Plus, at least it ensures that this portion of DARPA's budget goes to something worthwhile and unobjectionable, rather than letting them keep it to spend on something else.
      • Whoa! Most of the respondents here have made seriously fucked-up assumptions about my opinions based on my post. Rather than reply to each one, I will post a reply to myself.

        For my own opinions, Trepidity (597) asked all the questions I would, and answered them the same way I would; this money is used to fund the general project any way the project leaders choose, not to implement DARPA-requested features. Nowhere did I say that Theo's acceptance of the funding was hypocritical, or somehow not in line with
      • So why not question the source of a gift?
        In this case why bother? I presume Mr. DeRaadt was going to continue to work on OpenBSD anyway, so whether or not he gets money from DARPA is entirely irrelevant to his continuance of work. DARPA would have the same OpenBSD to use regardless of if Mr. DeRaadt's group got money from DARPA, a research grant from the Canadian government, or the Tooth Fairy. Or probably even if he got no money at all. It might just take him a bit longer then. He's not doing it for
    • Remember DARPA also funded research for things such as TCP/IP and something called the Internet. They wanted to create an ultra-reliable network in the event of a nuclear war. But like many military projects, the things they create are often very useful for the general public.
    • I don't understand why getting money from DARPA makes them uncomfortable. He mentions it comes with no strings attached.

      This might fit in the context of the recent Technological condrums [slashdot.org] article. A more extreme example of the condrum that Theo faces would be people who were looking at using the results of NAZI concentration camp experiments on identical twins, hypothermia research, etc. Do you take solace in the fact that it was NAZIs like Mengle (i.e. not you) who killed those subjects, or do you let the

    • Afterall, they got vile things like the Internet rolling, and give gobs of money to horribly destructive and Big Brotherish projects like reiserfs v4 [namesys.com].
  • Something of value is being created and improved.
    Someone wants that to continue so they fund it.

    Why is this news?

    • Re:Why open source works (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Lxy ( 80823 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:06PM (#5679762) Journal
      Why is this news?

      $2 million is news. That's a lot of money to be out into open source.

  • cash versus equipement (Score:4, Interesting)

    by st0rmcold ( 614019 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:06PM (#5679765) Homepage

    I completly understand how an OSS project can require funds for further development, what I worry is how these funds are donated, is it all contributed in cash?

    Problem with that is some people can easily take advantage of a situation like that, I think funding should instead come in required equipement and/or other expenses, but not cash, because there are many contributors (coders) to projects like this, and no one should be taking coin from it.

    Can someone shed some light? maybe I am off base...

    • Re:cash versus equipement (Score:5, Informative)

      by NetJunkie ( 56134 ) <jason.nash@nosPam.gmail.com> on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:11PM (#5679796)
      Equipment doesn't pay bills. My grocery store won't take a hard drive as payment. Many of these large projects have core developers that work on it full time. They have to make money to live. That's where this money is going. If you read the article it says they can now hire a few more full time developers which will get more features in the software faster.
    • Just to be nit-picky:

      Open Source (BSF, GPL, or whatever) != unpaid developers. I see no reason that DARPA (or anyone else) shouldn't be allowed to pay developers to write code that they will release under GPL.

      Open source implies that using the code is free (liberty, beer, etc.) It says NOTHING about compensation for the developers, and if DARPA paying some BSD developers gets the product quality up, then I'm all for it. Open source developers have to eat too, and if they can do it without taking another j

  • Hacker (Score:5, Informative)

    by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:07PM (#5679774) Homepage Journal
    The U.S. military believes the work of a Calgary hacker may be its best bet to protect its computer networks from so-called cyber-terrorist attacks.

    Non-techie news site gets "hacker" right? Very surprising.

    • I reckon they thought they were using "hacker" in the sense that we would consider the "wrong" way, and got it right by accident. Besides, "globetechnology.com" sounds like a techie news site to me, even if it is a part of a general news outlet.
    • More likely is that they misunderstand what Theo does.
      • I think it's you guys who misunderstand what Theo does... which is threatening [freebsd.org] to spam [netbsd.org] the FreeBSD and NetBSD mailing lists through an anonymous remailer when he doesn't get his way. Quit supporting the little crybaby.

  • no words can describe (Score:4, Interesting)

    by frankm_slashdot ( 614772 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:08PM (#5679778)
    well.. yeah, they can...

    holy fucking shit.... this is turly beautiful.

    there are two types of people in this world (well.. actually more, but ill narrow it down here), those who talk about needing - have their needs filled- then still dont produce... and then there are those who need - and once those needs are met.. they DO produce...

    i hope theo and the rest of obsd are of the latter...

    -frank

  • That much money... (Score:3, Funny)

    by GldisAter ( 138585 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:12PM (#5679803) Journal
    ... can buy a lot of poutine!

  • Send a pic of the check to Sun (Score:5, Funny)

    by uiil ( 413131 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:13PM (#5679809)
    and maybe theo will finally get the sparc docs he needs.
  • Either the military is tired of trying to keep up with Windows security patches or else they want to keep their options open...

  • OSS (Score:3, Interesting)

    by chunkwhite86 ( 593696 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:14PM (#5679818)
    It's a very positive thing to see government funding OSS software. This is something that gives positive returns to everyone.
  • Do they give all the money up front or do they pay later? If the latter, what's stopping DARPA from refusing to pay at the end? They could make up all kinds of reasons, like "they didn't do what we expected them to do", or even "Theo chucked a tantrum and refused to do what we asked". I know that the conditions say they can't order the OpenBSD hackers around, but they'll probably try to anyway.
    • Do they give all the money up front or do they pay later? If the latter, what's stopping DARPA from refusing to pay at the end?

      Why should it matter, if DARPA could not Coop Theo, they could just get the code and hire thier own "hackers" to modify it to thier own desires.

      DARPA is a research oriented group, they are paying to continue the research and development of openBSD to keep thier (the DODs) options open. Not that the DOD is going to see the light any time soon and get off the MS software nipp

  • Errr... National Post? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:17PM (#5679835)
    "U.S. military helps fund Calgary hacker

    By DAVID AKIN
    From Monday's Globe and Mail"

    I think you've attributed it to the wrong paper, that's quite clearly from the Globe and Mail (as if the url, globetechnology.com wasn't a give away), the other national Canadian paper.
  • Oh, man...

    First, I like OpenBSD. I'm in a "network free-state" so I can run NAT to allow me to let my kids play on their machine while I compute on mine and we can all get to the internet... OpenBSD lets me do this.

    But, MAN, how can he take $2,000,000 from the US Gov't and still criticize them at the same time?

    No backbone? No ethics?

    Give us a break; if he felt that strongly about the war, he could've said, "Thanks, but I'll wait till you guys leave Iraq before I'll accept your money."

    Come ON already
    • This is the same DARPA that funded the creation of the internet. The same DARPA that continues to fund new internet technology.
      No more using the web for you until the war is over.
      Hypocrite.

    • Re:Can you say, "Hypocrite?" (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Night Goat ( 18437 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @01:27PM (#5680275) Homepage Journal
      The U.S. Government is a huge organization that sponsors all sorts of programs. DARPA didn't cause the war. NASA didn't cause the war. The IRS didn't cause the war. Like Theo said, taking the money prevented that money from being used on a cruise missile.
      • "Like Theo said, taking the money prevented that money from being used on a cruise missile."

        Actually, I think that money would probably only buy like 2 crise missiles. And the chances are, by the time they are made, the war will be over and those missiles would just be used for troop training by blowing up cacti in the western US desert. Or, hopefully, they would be used to take out that nutjob who is running North Korea.
      • Like Theo said, taking the money prevented that money from being used on a cruise missile.

        No, he said that's what he tells himself. Theo is intelligent and thus he knows that it's not true exactly. THAT money won't be used, but money is just numbers; We the people of the US have to pay for that $2.3M. They don't just avoid building a cruise missile, they tax us more so they can build it.

        • Nonetheless, the point is still there. Quit your nitpicking, asshole. Fuck, are we splitting hairs here? The point is, the US is a big organization and does a whole lot of stuff, we're not a monarchy. No single vision for the entire government.
    • But, MAN, how can he take $2,000,000 from the US Gov't and still criticize them at the same time?

      He can do this because he's not selling out. He's taking the money to help him do what he's been doing all along, because it benefits everyone. Just because someone pays you to do something (business) doesn't mean you can't dislike them (personal), it just means you can't let your bias determine how you react.

      This shows me that De Raadt is mature enough to know the difference between business affairs and pers

    • Re:Can you say, "Hypocrite?" (Score:5, Interesting)

      by astroboy ( 1125 ) <ljdursi@gmail.com> on Monday April 07, 2003 @01:49PM (#5680379) Homepage
      Give us a break; if he felt that strongly about the war, he could've said, "Thanks, but I'll wait till you guys leave Iraq before I'll accept your money."

      So it's your opinion that money should buy silence? That anyone who accepts money from the governement is morally required to not criticize the government that funded them? Or is it your position that the government should only fund researchers who agree with the current administration?

      I think just the opposite; unless you want all research to lose its independance, you should criticize even your patrons if that's how you feel. That comment might cost him similar money in the future; but he said what he believed anyway. That does show backbone and ethics.

      For all I know, The rationalle might be that he's accepting this money exactly because it'll be $2M that is not going to develop bombs or other WMDs. That seems like a completely self-consistant moral position.

      • WMDs? (Score:2)

        by GQuon ( 643387 )
        bombs or other WMDs

        Just wondering: do you think regular high explosive bombs to be "Weapons of Mass Destruction"?
        Or is this some kind of New-speak on your part?

  • "Low code quality keeps haunting our entire industry. That, and sloppy programmers who don't understand the frameworks they work within. They're like plumbers high on glue," Mr. de Raadt said.

    Just think of all those "toilets" that were built by glue sniffing plumbers.... It's no surprise that no one knows where the sh*t ends up!

    In other news, A large 'plumbing' company announces that you should make sure the lid of your toilet is down to prevent sewer back up until the latest fuzzy seat 'patches' a

  • More DARPA $$ means more OpenBSD hacker working, so this is a good thing. Even though I understand Theo's problems, I think this is a good thing.

  • Best quote from the article: (Score:5, Funny)

    by Saint Aardvark ( 159009 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:18PM (#5679845) Homepage Journal
    "Low code quality keeps haunting our entire industry. That, and sloppy programmers who don't understand the frameworks they work within. They're like plumbers high on glue," Mr. de Raadt said.

    BTW, anyone else notice the article was actually from The Globe and Mail [theglobeandmail.com]?

    • I also noticed that as well. What's up here?

      • As discussed on the mailing lsit, the National Post doesnt have this article online as of yet, but it is in the actual paper, and that is the source Theo quoted when announcing to the mailing list.. Basically the Globe has it online, so everyone has been quoting that in stories because its easier to reference something online in a online story.

        And on a totally different note: GO THEO! WHOOOOT!!

  • Lack of vulnerabilities (Score:5, Informative)

    by deepchasm ( 522082 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:19PM (#5679846)

    From the article:

    OpenBSD, which does not develop as many products as Microsoft, says only one vulnerability or hole has been found in its software in the past seven years.

    Erm, shouldn't that be "only one remote hole in the default install"?

    • If "only one vulnerability or hole has been found in its software" means anything aside from "only one remote hole in the default install" (your suggested substitution), then it is completely meaningless.

      If you are discussing non default configurations, there are infinite holes in all operating systems. For example, there is the non-default remote-root vulnerability when I set all my passwords to "PASSWORD".

      I assume there were specific non-default remote roots you were thinking of, but still.
      • Actually, local vulnerabilities are worth mentioning when it comes to a multiuser/security-enabled operating system. I'm sure that if there were a local hole on Windows XP which would allow a Guest user or a "Limited" (read: Not an Administrator) user to gain Administrator privileges, you would consider that a vulnerability/hole.
      • "Only one remote hole in the default install, in more than 7 years!"

        Is exactly the quote from the home page of openbsd.org [openbsd.org]. The express it in that way in recognition of the fact that there can be holes that are not remote.

        If a local user can hack the system to gain privileges above those explicitly assigned by the system administrator that would be a hole that was not remote.

  • Motive? (Score:5, Funny)

    by pmz ( 462998 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:20PM (#5679858) Homepage
    When asked about his brand-new 24K gold biking helmet, Theo pointed behind the reporters and exclaimed "What's that!". With the reporters distracted, he promptly ran the other direction and hid behind some bushes. The reporters, being only average journalists, published that OpenBSD's leader can turn himself invisible at will and cited that OpenBSD appears to be some sort of Canadian rap group.

  • guess the name of the command shell interpreter... (Score:4, Funny)

    by xv4n ( 639231 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:22PM (#5679869)
    cash$
    =)

  • Crypto is good. Crypto is evil. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:28PM (#5679894)

    from the openbsd website:

    "Today cryptography is an important means for enhancing the security of an operating system...

    '...When we create OpenBSD releases or snapshots we build our release binaries in free countries to assure that the sources and binaries we provide to users are free of tainting. In the past our release binary builds have been done in Canada, Sweden, and Germany...'

    Gov spends millions to control crypto exports.

    Gov spends millions to support OpenBSD which
    bypasses US crypto export laws?!

  • ..in other news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:28PM (#5679896) Journal
    Mr. de Raadt is no fan of the U.S. military at the moment. He calls the war in Iraq an oil grab. "It just sickens me."

    IN other news, Theo de Raadt is held by the Department of Homeland Security in Seattle while attending an OpenBSD conference. Mr De Raadt, in the country to give a speech at the conference is whisked away by unknown persons in a black van. Other conference goers are later told by organizers that a quote by Mr. de Raadt is being held under the US PATRIOT Act for "'aiding and giving comfort to Evil Ones."

    The Canadian high counsel in Washington lodges a formal condemnation of the act -- demanding that the Canadian Citizen be released. Washington replies "It is quite obvious that Canadians and The Canadian Regime has been overrun by The Evil Ones. Like Syria and Iran, Canada must learn that their Either With Us or Against Us." In Ottawa, American ambassador Cellucci says "yeah, what he said, Canadians baaaaad"

    Republican Senator U.S. Nitwitt says "Why should righteous Americans be giving their defense funds to this communist^H^H^H^H^H^Hterrorist? Its obvious he's a terrorist - at least. This is a threat to our security. The Department of Homeland Security may or may not be justified in siezing him if they did or didnt... uhm, filthy Un American... i hear he rides the bus!"

    • Very funny! But sadly true.

      With the new powers given to the government and the current WitchHunt in progress, all us geeks need to keep a low profile before M$, BSA, RIAA or MPAA declare you a terrorist in a public forum..Ops..already happened...

      Timmy says: "Bill? what's that on the ground?"
      Bill says: "Don't know Timmy. But if it moves I say we hit it with a big stick!"

  • Great PR campaign (Score:3, Funny)

    by Florian Weimer ( 88405 ) <fw@deneb.enyo.de> on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:30PM (#5679914) Homepage
    OpenBSD, which does not develop as many products as Microsoft, says only one vulnerability or hole has been found in its software in the past seven years.

    It's good to see that OpenBSD magnificient PR campaign [openbsd.org] finally pays off.

    Sarcasm aside, I believe the government is the only part (apart from Microsoft with its cash reserves) which can invest in secure software development at the moment, so this is a step in the right direction.

  • Has anyone else heard about this DARPANET? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Mothra the III ( 631161 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:34PM (#5679940)
    Its supposed to hook scientists and researchers together over a "network" where computers can exchange information. It would be neat if this technology would some day be available to everyone!
  • "We're not doing anything for them. They just fund us to do what we do," said Mr. de Raadt

    Is Theo really that niave to belive that DARPA is simply "giving" him money to do with what he wishes and to think the US military/government doesn't have some ,as of yet, unseen motive. Theo is so silly sometimes.

    • Doesn't matter (Score:3, Insightful)

      by nuggz ( 69912 )
      Theo is making OpenBSD. It is freely available to anyone who wants it. If the US military/gov wants it, they already have it and can use it for whatever unseen motive anyway.
      As of now, they are just helping him do what he was doing anyway.

      The motive of the US gov as it currently relates to OpenBSD is they want to help its development.
      They can already incorporate it into closed source products, and they can't take it away and lock it up from everyone else.

      • Re:Doesn't matter (Score:3, Interesting)

        by drinkypoo ( 153816 )
        In fact this is the best possible thing that could happen. Think about it, they could have spent that US$2.3M on hiring a programmer or two and forking OpenBSD internally. (They of course have probably already done that too, and we'll just never hear it - Not DARPA, but some other branch of the gov't.) Instead, everything done with their money will either go into the OpenBSD codebase, or into or onto Theo's body. (Got to remain clothed and fed...)

    • Re:Niave? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by radon28 ( 593565 )
      I would consider it to be more of an investment on DARPA's part, rather than some sort of influence on the direction of OpenBSD development. They see a project that meets their needs, and they want to ensure that it does well, so it will serve them well. It's not that different from IBM spending $1 billion on Linux because they want to see it do well.

  • Unequal Benefit In Mankind's Favour. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Beautyon ( 214567 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @12:56PM (#5680088) Homepage
    Since anyone anywhere can make use of the products that will come out of this two million dollars, the benefit to wider mankind far outbweighs the benefit to DARPA | TIA | $evil_project.

    Now, if that same money went into one of the many secret software projects at Lawrence Livermore or teh NSA, then no one benefits except the evil parties.

    The use of this money to develop OpenBSD can be nothing but a good thing, due to the security everyone will gain, world wide, which will further protect from the real bad guys.

  • Acorns grow to be oaks. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by GerardM ( 535367 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @01:04PM (#5680144)
    Consider the cost involved. Compare it to some military hardware. Given how and where it can be used given its license, it will be used all over and will save lives as much as a pantzer does.

    The brilliant thing here is that this move recognises the importance of communities; the OpenBSD community IS all over the world, with Mr de Raadt a Canadian the work can be done in Canada, in the USA, in India, wherever the TALENT is.

    As the grant is intended to help "testing the security of commercial software systems against the security of open source software projects", it will point to the truth in this old dispute what makes better secure software AND it will help to point to the relative merits of "security by obscurity".

    However to assess this, I expect DARPA not to select Microsoft Windows as the champion of the proprietary world, I would choose OS/400. Given the smaller size of the OpenBSD community, the effect of methodology can be better assessed.

    As DARPA throws bread on the water, I hope they will land a big fish!

    Thanks, Gerard

  • I didn't know that. I guess our Comp Sci program has some pretty distinguished alumni - James Gosling, creator of Java and Theo de Raadt.

  • Maybe they can now afford GUI installer and (Score:3)

    by LM741N ( 258038 ) on Monday April 07, 2003 @01:24PM (#5680259)
    a >8Gb bootloader. I'm a big OpenBSD fan (own all the teeshirts), but those two items are a big pain in the butt.
    • I can see a GUI packge/ports manager, but you have all of about 8 options in the installer. A GUI instller would be larger and more error prone. I've used GRUB to boot OpenBSD and it works fine, although it's a bit much for just a bootloader.
  • If BSD is now Rich AND Dying,

    Where is Anna Nichole ???????

    =)
  • "Theo, when will you put .iso images up for download?"

  • That's the best thing a pentagoner could do for military infrastructure.
    Remember? In the end Clifford Stoll was working for the CIA and NSA! in a way, that is. And it didn't hurt him. Or them, for that matter.
  • "OpenBSD is one of several open source operating systems, the most famous of which is Linux."

    I guess Microsoft lost its market dominance ?

  • "The DARPA grant enabled Mr. de Raadt to add the equivalent of four full-time developers to supplement the work of about 80 volunteers."

    I don't know what kind of developers he's hiring but for $500,000 a pop -- I'm sending him my damn resume.

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