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BSD Operating Systems

FreeBSD 4.8 Released 207

Dan writes "FreeBSD's Murray Stokely announces the long awaited availability of FreeBSD 4.8, the latest FreeBSD-stable release, which has dealt with known security issues, and added initial support for Firewire, HyperThreading, and other new hardware technologies. Murray says that the new release is also the result of conservative updates to a number of software programs in the FreeBSD base system, see FreeBSD 4.8 release notes for more information."
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FreeBSD 4.8 Released

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  • Running it already. (Score:3, Informative)

    by geniusj ( 140174 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:03AM (#5660346) Homepage
    Just upgraded a few boxes to RELENG_4_8 a few minutes ago. One of the boxes has 2x2.4ghz xeon, and now HT is supported. Yay!
    • As said elsewhere I've just put this into production and it is really sweet. BSD is dying? I think not :)

      As for HT which I had some Xeons

      Rus
  • gnome2 and kde3? Does it support those... didn't see it in the release notes. Would use it as a workstation if it did.
    • Re:What about.. (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The release notes clearly state that FreeBSD 4.8 now includes Gnome 2.2 and KDE 3 along with XFree86 4.3.

  • STOP!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by AntEater ( 16627 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:08AM (#5660371) Homepage

    I was about 12% into my download of the iso files when this showed up on the front page. Everyone please wait until I'm finished. Thanks.

    • Re:STOP!! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jhines ( 82154 )
      That is silly, all you need is the floppy image, and MFS disk image, and then it will fetch the rest over the net.

      Why DL an ISO image, when you can be up and running in the time that takes?
      • Re:STOP!! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Daimaou ( 97573 )
        Because I, for one, do not have any floppy drives in my machines.
      • Re:STOP!! (Score:2, Informative)

        by AntEater ( 16627 )
        I d/l the iso images because I'm going to install on multiple machines and I'll want to experiment extensively with the installtion and configuration before putting the system into production use. I'd rather not waste their bandwidth as well as my own needlessly.

        Slackware 9.0 and FreeBSD 4.8 released within a few weeks of each other?! Whee!

      • No, no, please don't do this! I probably do 100 installs per CD. The ISO is 700 megs, so, 7mb of traffic per install. Then again, I work at an ISP, so most people will probably do fewer.

        Compare with a network install at around 200mb per download. The advantage is obvious. Keep in mind, traffic isn't free, and the money you save the project by keeping their traffic bill at a minimum can instead go to things like buying technical documents for that snazzy new piece of hardware.
  • Truly an American icon.
  • Newbie question (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ichthus ( 72442 )
    I just decided to try FreeBSD a few days ago. I downloaded it, and the name of the file is 5.0-RELEASE-i386-disc1.iso. I thought (from the file name) that this was v5.0. Am I wrong? Is 4.8 really the latest?
    • Re:Newbie question (Score:5, Informative)

      by DJPenguin ( 17736 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:16AM (#5660426)
      5.0 is full of loads of features, and is considered "cutting edge".

      4.x are "stable" and mature. Think of it like the difference between Linux kernels 2.4.x (stable) vs 2.5.x (current). Not quite a true analogy but you get the idea.
      • We can't have newbies using the cutting edge stuff! The cutting edge stuff does not have the "evil bit" that detects whether a newbie is at the keyboard.

        just to fuck them up and keep them in their place...
      • I have an old 486 laptop that I would like to configure as my NAT gateway (I am currently running RedHat 6.2 on a p133, and I am looking forward to cutting my power consumption down to 27W).

        I have two IBM Home & Away 14.4+Ethernet PCMCIA cards, plus an Accton EN2218.

        How can I install FreeBSD on this system? I gather that support for my PCMCIA cards is nil, so I tried some others (3com, etc.), but the 5.0 installer said that "only a limited subset" of the supported PCMCIA cards are supported by the i

        • by Anonymous Coward
          This is an annoying oversight, true. I'm have a similarly hard time trying to find an answer for you (I'd look at CVS, but I need to get in the shower!).

          -You can boot the floppy in 'interactive' kernel configuration mode, and see what devices are in the list.

          -You can look in CVS (FreeBSD.org hosts a CVSWeb server, which is quite handy for these moments) and find the kernel configuration file used for the floppy set(s).

          -You should be able to use SLIP or PPP over a serial null-modem link, to bootstrap the
    • Re:Newbie question (Score:4, Informative)

      by palfreman ( 164768 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:20AM (#5660451) Homepage
      4.8 is the latest to be released. 5.0 is branched from the 5-CURRENT development tree in cvs, 4.8 is branched from the 4-STABLE cvs tree. If you are a beginner you will probably prefer to use -STABLE releases rather than -CURRENT ones.
    • Re:Newbie question (Score:5, Informative)

      by Ded Bob ( 67043 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:23AM (#5660470) Homepage
      There are several branches of FreeBSD. The two active ones are v4 and v5. v5 is new and not ready for production as stated by FreeBSD. Somewhere they warn not to use it for production at this time. v4 is much more stable. If you are learning FreeBSD, it will not hurt to try out either of them.

      Personally, I am updating my boxes to 4.8--cvsup is a wonderful tool--as we speak. It may be safer for you to start there on solid ground.
  • FreeBSD (Score:5, Informative)

    by elemur ( 7613 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:14AM (#5660414)
    To those who run linux (or other OSs) exclusively, you really should give FreeBSD a try.

    I started using it around 8 years ago for some core services.. DNS.. SMTP.. etc. It proved to be fast and reliable even then, and those were on old PII machines.

    Since then, its gotten tremendously better.. the security subsystems are great, from ip firewalling to kernel and system level protections. (The jail environment is very interesting..) I currently have DNS and mail services running on it, with a vinum disk mirror (Vinum is a logical volume manager for FreeBSD) and have basically no maintenance.

    If you wanted to experiment with a BSD machine, I know that http://www.johncompanies.com/ provides virtualized FreeBSD machines pretty cheaply, or just install it on a spare partition somewhere.

    My only gripe is that it tends to trail linux on user interface/user focused device drivers, and in the Java space. Otherwise, it works great for me!

    (I haven't tried 4.8 yet, since I don't have any need to upgrade my servers right now, but when I get a spare test box, I'll probably give it a spin..)
    • Re:FreeBSD (Score:3, Interesting)

      by 4of12 ( 97621 )

      So has anyone done exhaustive performance comparisons of all the x86 OS under different kinds of loads (network connections, processes, I/O, multiple processors)?

      In the days of yore FreeBSD was highly regarded for its performance in some areas and I'm wondering if that's still an accurate assessment compared to Linux, Win2K/XP, other BSDs.

      • Re:FreeBSD (Score:5, Informative)

        by b0r1s ( 170449 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @01:20PM (#5661911) Homepage
        The problem with exhaustive testing of OSs is that to get the best performance out of most of them, they require someone relatively knowledgable.

        For instance, there was a large comparison of Windows v. FreeBSD v. Linux, and FreeBSD came in dead last. Those who know realize that the FreeBSD box wasn't tuned (at all), and that any competant sysadmin would have made 10-20 substantial changes to the system before running that benchmark. Similarly, the Windows and Linux boxes could have probably been tuned better (the benchmark claimed that miminal changes were made, but they were important changes).

        There seems to have been much more research into specifically network related code under FreeBSD, but FreeBSD 5 also has UFS2, which is also apparently a nice performance increase.

        I'm of the opinion that FreeBSD is still the fastest of the major OSs (Windows, FreeBSD, Linux) for most services, although the preemptive kernel patches for linux may make linux nicer for desktop use. NetBSD is close, OpenBSD still doesn't support SMP, so you can pretty much kiss off OpenBSD on large SMP hardware.
        • Would be nice to see competetion like this, where each 'team' used the exact same hardware, all parts out 1 year or more. Something like a dual xeon and/or p3 1.3 with 1 gig of ram. Let some Windows vendor, RedHat, One of BSD's (they are all the same, right :) hehe) and anyone else enter. each team tunes their own system.

          This would be nice to see. mulitiple setups over multiple days. A pop3/smtp box. A dns box. A simple HTTPD server. File server, and maybe a 'little of everything' box, and compare t
    • Pimping (Score:4, Informative)

      by rf0 ( 159958 ) <rghf@fsck.me.uk> on Friday April 04, 2003 @11:21AM (#5660903) Homepage
      Yeah I'll get modded down for this but we do virtual servers running FreeBSD as well. See my sig

      Rus
    • "It proved to be fast and reliable even then, and those were on old PII machines."

      Ouch! Now that just hurts.

      My Linux workstation is a PII/266 (dual CPU, though).

      --Richard
  • BSD Ports (Score:4, Informative)

    by vcbumg2 ( 592292 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:14AM (#5660418)
    I use linux for dev and the bsd's for everything else. If you are sick of rpm HELL give freebsd a try and see what a OSS OS that is managed from the ground up looks like not just the kernel. Redhat might come with bells and whistles but with a little more time I can make FBSD sing and dance with half the bloat!!! Codeman
    • Re:BSD Ports (Score:2, Interesting)

      by stevey ( 64018 )

      OT I know .. but I could say exactly the same thing about Debian [debian.org].

      I've used FreeBSD a little, but not enough to appreciate it's strengths I guess.

      (My initial impressions were raised by the firey screensaver upon the console, and the way it printed your uptime when you rebooted it!)

      • Re:BSD Ports (Score:4, Informative)

        by mosch ( 204 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @11:43AM (#5661111) Homepage
        If you'd say the same thing about debian, then you either haven't used debian long enough, or you haven't used freebsd long enough.

        If you don't mind running the extremely old debian stable branch, debian works pretty well, but as soon as you need a new version of something, then you enter into a minor hell of incompatible required versions, and instead of just knowing how to use the basic apt-get commands, you're suddenly forced to fix all sorts of shit with dpkg.

        FreeBSD doesn't have the equivalent to the debian stable branch for the ports collection, it's always new, and most of the software always works. That being said, if you're interested in running gnome and kde, you should try to install these off of a release tagged ports collection, as both of them have a tendancy to only FULLY compile out of ports about 90% of the time, which can be wickedly frustrating. So with FreeBSD, you might have to learn how to use the date tag, or the release tags in cvsup, to move backwards to a point in time where the whole ports collection worked (the whole thing is generally very solid right at a release).

        On the whole, the FreeBSD system is probably your preferred choice if you cannot make do with 2 year old software, but if the older software is adaquate for your needs, debian's stable branch is probably your best bet.

        • There's absolutely no reason to stick with stable unless you want a 99.9999% proven to work and free of major problems system. It's somewhat akin to running the stable branch of FreeBSD, but probably even more conservative (Debian has a 2-year release cycle). For most systems, you should almost certainly run at least testing. It only has packages that have been tested for a few weeks (yes, despite its name, this is where packages go after they've already been tested for a bit) and pretty much always work
    • by swb ( 14022 )
      ...is that you can get kind of dependent on them. I don't build anything that's not in ports anymore, and its eliminated my skill at building crap from .tgz files like I used to under Linux.

      But it's not a skill that I miss terribly, actually, and hasn't been a problem.
      • Read the Porter's Handbook and start creating your own custom ports, or editing the existing ones to work the way you want. Then you'll be proficient in both source compiles and port installs. :) And you'll get your name on the FreeBSD Contributors list if your new port gets accepted into the tree.
    • RedHat is not the only linux distro around.

      for one, debian is really good, provides lots of precompiled packages,
      and a set of options, whether you want to go for stable (AKA old), development or bleeding edge software. I use the bleeding edge branch and it's not unstable at all, it's pretty good, it does automatic dependency checks to install packages and downloads/installs the needed packages.

      On the other hand, there is gentoo, which is basically the same in terms of ease of installing new apps/stuff but
    • You do realize that there is more to Linux than just Redhat?
  • Hotswap IDE (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DJPenguin ( 17736 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:18AM (#5660438)
    Anyone doing this in FreeBSD? I have it (kind of) working, using atacontrol detach / attach before removing or inserting a drive. Works with regular filesystems, but I want to use vinum - the logical volume manager. As soon as vinum touches the replaced drive, it panics.

    What are people using for volume management on FreeBSD anyway? I really wish a Linux-like LVM was available.
    • It sounds to me like you aren't initting the plex or something.

      Whether you're making a mistake or not, you should post to -stable explaining precisely how you can make your system panic, and it'll get fixed pretty quickly.

    • Send it to questions@freebsd.org (make sure vinum is in the title, you're guaranteed to get a response from Greg).
  • by Spencerian ( 465343 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:29AM (#5660494) Homepage Journal
    It's only a matter of time until some wacko Mac OS X users asks "when will this latest BSD update become part of the BSD subsystem of Mac OS X?"

    I'm not one of those people.

    Nope. No way. Uh-uh. No sirree.
    • " It proved to be fast and reliable even then, and those were on old PII machines."

      Well?.......
    • Heh. The BSD subsystem in OS X is actually still largely based on 4.4 BSD (yes the old one). Modern BSDs (Free and Net) are used mainly in userspace, and in the filesystem and networking subsystems.
  • by stud9920 ( 236753 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:31AM (#5660507)
    for the "is dying" trolls : be sure to visit the two links in my sig...
    • Fact : *Bush is dying It is official; CNN confirms: *Bush is dying One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *Bush community when IDC confirmed that *Bush market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent CNN survey which plainly states that *Bush has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *Bush is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead
    • just heard some sad news on talk radio - Father of American Government George Washington was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to American Revolution. Truly an American icon.

      (might as well burn some of that precious karma. ;))
    • It is official; My bitchy girlfriend confirms: Underpants is dying One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Underpants community when IDC confirmed that Underpants market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent My bitchy girlfriend survey which plainly states that Underpants has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Underpants is collapsing in complete disarray, as f
    • everything looks good, but you should include the to kreskin's site [amazingkreskin.com] I'm sure he loves seeing all the referrers from slashdot in his log!
  • by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:36AM (#5660530) Homepage

    The conservative updates to BSD now mean that several commands and C functions are not available because they offend conservative moral values these include, but are not limited to (a full list will not be produced for reasons of security)

    finger, bash, free, enable, alias & break

    Awk is no longer considered under protection and users may hunt it to extinction if they desire.

    kill is of course still available to all users, with the added bonus that you may now kill other peoples processes that you believe are interfering with your own and stealing CPU time from your processes.

    In addition 4.8 introduces the first stage of BSD NSA Security which ensures your security by logging everything you do with the goverment, this is an optional package at this stage but will be mandatory in 5.0.

    Anyone who doesn't like these updates is a liberal communist who is undermining the American Way of Life

    The BSD Conservative Coalition Commitee
    • by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @11:38AM (#5661053) Homepage Journal
      Full list of conservative changes has now been leaked.

      1. "man" pages are now called "person" pages.
      2. Similarly, "hangman" is now the "person_executed_by_an_oppressive_regime."
      3. To avoid casting aspersions on our feline friends, the "cat" command is now merely "domestic_quadruped."
      4. To date, there has only been a UNIX command for "yes" - reflecting the male belief that women always mean yes, even when they say no. To address this imbalance, System VI adds a "no" command, along with a "-f[orce]" option which will crash the entire system if the "no" is ignored.
      5. The bias of the "mail" command is obvious, and it has been replaced by the more neutral "gendre" command.
      6. The "touch" command has been removed from the standard distribution due to its inappropriate use by high-level managers.
      7. "compress" has been replaced by the lightweight "feather" command. Thus, old information (such as that from Dead White European Males) should be archived via "tar" and "feather".
      8. The "more" command reflects the materialistic philosophy of the Reagan era. System VI uses the environmentally preferable "less" command.
      9. The biodegradable "KleeNeX" displaces the environmentally unfriendly "LaTeX".

      1. SHELL COMMANDS To avoid unpleasant, medieval connotations, the "kill" command has been renamed "euthanise."
      2. The "nice" command was historically used by privileged users to give themselves priority over unprivileged ones, by telling them to be "nice". In System VI, the "sue" command is used by unprivileged users to get for themselves the rights enjoyed by privileged ones.
      3. "history" has been completely rewritten, and is now called "herstory."
      4. "quota" can now specify minimum as well as maximum usage, and will be strictly enforced.
      5. The "abort()" function is now called "choice()."

      1. TERMINOLOGY From now on, "rich text" will be more accurately referred to as "exploitive capitalist text".
      2. The term "daemons" is a Judeo-Christian pejorative. Such processes will now be known as "spiritual guides."
      3. There will no longer be a invidious distinction between "dumb" and "smart" terminals. All terminals are equally valuable.
      4. Traditionally, "normal video" (as opposed to "reverse video") was white on black. This implicitly condoned European colonialism, particularly with respect to people of African descent. UNIX System VI now uses "regressive video" to refer to white on black, while "progressive video" can be any color at all over a white background.
      5. For far too long, power has been concentrated in the hands of "root" and his "wheel" oligarchy. We have instituted a dictatorship of the users. All system administration functions will be handled by the People's Committee for Democratically Organizing the System (PC-DOS).
      6. No longer will it be permissible for files and processes to be "owned" by users. All files and processes will own themselves, and decided how (or whether) to respond to requests from users.
      7. The X Window System will henceforth be known as the NC-17 Window System.
      8. And finally, UNIX itself will be renamed "PC" - for Procreatively Challenged.

      Source: http://paul.merton.ox.ac.uk/computing/newunix.html - Policitally correct UNIX
    • MosesJones wrote:
      finger, bash, free, enable, alias & break
      Bash is not part of FreeBSD. The default shell is tcsh, and a real sh is provided to run scripts. Bash is available as a port (i.e. third-party add-on ackage). It goes in /usr/local/bin/bash.
    • Conservatives use Jesux [geocities.com]. Of course, it uses the Bo[u]rn[e]-Again SHell.
  • by ajs ( 35943 ) <ajs.ajs@com> on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:38AM (#5660550) Homepage Journal
    I just want to give a shout out (look at the older geek trying out the lingo...) to FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Darwin, Linux, and all of the other free OSen of lesser popularity and even completion (yay GNU/Hurd)!

    It's not said often enough (and certainly not by OS bigots like me) that this phenomenon of open source / free software is one of the brigtest examples of the human drive to form communities based on respect and contribution.

    I wrote a couple articles for Dæmon News a while back on the topic of BSD and Linux, and they've grown dated. Perhaps it's time to write a Linux-free article about BSD. There's some interesting stuff that I see going on from angles like Perl and GNOME where these projects have become far more *BSD-aware in recent years (more so than just having a stable port to the platform), and I'm wondering if the future of free operating systems is beginning to shift back to the BSDs (as it was when I first started using UNIX and UNIX-like systems in the late 80s).

    Good job on the release, folks!. May your bugs be few and your releases often.

    PS: Hmmm, as I just said on the SpamAssassin mailing list, perhaps it's time I stop posting *right* after my first coffee of the morning ;-)
  • by rf0 ( 159958 ) <rghf@fsck.me.uk> on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:39AM (#5660554) Homepage
    Just rolled a new server running 4.8 into production. Works like a dream and lastest CVS has security fixes as well so no patching necessary (well I guess for a few weeks :). The performance once again rocks.

    Of course we have the ports tree which I think it the second best package managment, after apt on debian. Also I'm now running jails and they are stable and everything seems to just work. Which is nice.

    Overall lets give a big hand to the FreeBSD team.

    Rus
  • Firewire... New?? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TrollBridge ( 550878 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @10:39AM (#5660562) Homepage Journal
    "...and added initial support for Firewire, HyperThreading, and other new hardware technologies."

    Umm... firewire isn't exactly new. What's taking them so long to get more than "initial" support? And what does THAT mean?

  • Firewire New? (Score:1, Redundant)

    by buffy ( 8100 )
    Since when is Firewire a new hardware technology? It's been around for quite a while...

    -buf
  • Yes! It's time to cvsup again!

    Yes!!

    I've been waiting for this release for awhile now. Thanks to you guys for all your hard work!

    Now I can finally upgrade my 4.6.2-RELEASE box to 4.8-RELEASE. Ugh...but my uptime. :( I have like over 180 days or so. Oh well, uptime isn't everything. Security is though.

    Well, I wish you all a happy CVSup'ing, or whatever is you do to upgrade.

  • BitTorrent? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Andy Dodd ( 701 ) <atd7NO@SPAMcornell.edu> on Friday April 04, 2003 @11:48AM (#5661157) Homepage
    Anyone going to be "torrenting" this one?

    I've been thinking of trying FreeBSD, and I definately will grab it if it's torrented. :)
    • I'm still waiting for the CVS to be torrented. Now that would be cool.
  • by semanticgap ( 468158 ) on Friday April 04, 2003 @12:07PM (#5661322)
    Check out the traffic graph [freebsd.org] for ftp2. Now slashdot that!
  • ..."Firewire, HyperThreading, and other new hardware technologies". That seems to imply that Firewire is a new technology? How long has Mac OS supported Firewire? 15 years or something like that?
    • How long has Mac OS supported Firewire? 15 years or something like that?
      Not 15 years, since the tech's not that old. Considering Apple invented the technology, it's reasonable that they had an implementation fairly quickly. FireWire is actually an Apple trademark, the generic term is IEEE1394.
  • Ok, I'm not trying to start a flame war here, although it seem like one has already been started. I want pure facts (or at least as close as we can get). I've heard lots of talk about fbsd 5.0 vs linux 2.6 and even fbsd4.8 vs. linux 2.6. What about the current kernel? I want to know how does linux 2.4.20 plus the prememptive kernel and low latency patches compares to freebsd 4.8 on speed and desktop responsiveness. I know freebsd would kill linux as a server, but I dont care about that, I just want to run i
    • Well that depends on wich distro of linux you are using, if your using redhat, it gets brutally slaughtered by freebsd, as do many of the other linux distros. However, there is a new linux distro out that really gives freebsd a run for its money. Gentoo linux is great.Its still realitivly new so there really arnt any gui tools like there are in red hat, so its not for beginners. But gentoo runs at about the speed of a freebsd 4.7 box. And about the same stability.

      The really nice thing that comes with gen
    • 4.7 worked very well on the (KDE) desktop. Haven't tried 4.8 yet.
    • See for yourself:

      1) Download the various distros.
      2) install them on your machine one by one.
      3) Write an article.
      4) Profit!!!
      5) Choose FreeBSD.

    • Personally I'd say FreeBSD is faster and a lot easier to get software for ( ports ).

      But don't take my word for it, Why don't you try both of them on the same hardware and see what you think?

      Don't come to slashdot for answers, we only do opinions.
    • It's the desktop, you won't be able to tell any difference just because of the kernel. There may be some difference, but they will be because of other things, like libc vs glibc, or the build optimizations you use, etc.

      In my experience, I can't tell the difference on the *desktop* between FreeBSD and Slackware, with both built from scratch with the same CFLAGs.
  • ...than when I just burned a copy of the previous release.

    I'm so behind the times.

  • Ok I can find the isos on ftp.freebsd.org,
    but wheres CHECKSUM.MD5?

    It seems a waste of time downloading these things if I don't even know if they are different to the iso's I downloaded three days ago.
    • Re:MD5's? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Dark44 ( 624610 )
      You'll find the MD5's for the three ISO images in the Errate section of the release information for 4.8.

      http://www.freebsd.org/releases/4.8R/errata.html
  • When is nsswitch going to be added to FreeBSD? I've been wanting to get FreeBSD authenticating off LDAP for a while now, but there is no LDAP support in the hard-coded name switching service.

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