I'd prefer military fiction books that are ...
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This poll is lame. (Score:4, Insightful)
Where is the I DONT CARE button? We should at least have one to prove the point of how lame this poll is.
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I picked the "Who cares, as long as it's not set on earth?" option simply because the first two words hit the nail squarely on the head. Would've been better without the subsequent eight though.
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It's located on the top of your browser, the icon looks like an arrow pointing to the left.
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You'll find it on the Slashdot Beta version of the poll.
Which is why no one clicked on it.
I'd prefer military fiction books that are ... (Score:2, Funny)
Set on fire.
Then you'd enjoy (Score:2)
Military fiction about Nazi Germany.
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You just barely missed the mark there, pretty sure the target is the Koran.
Well written (Score:5, Insightful)
One, two and five (Score:5, Insightful)
Radio buttons are not the right entry method for some polls.
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Radio buttons are not the right entry method for some polls.
Base 0 or base 1?
All of the above (Score:5, Insightful)
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No, they forgot the famous CowboyNeal option!
CowboyNeal has not been a part of Slashdot since before Beta came out. He must have gotten a look at Alpha and bailed.
why lump present day and near future... (Score:5, Interesting)
there's a big difference here...I would like stories that are 50 yrs out...very different than today.
... original works (Score:5, Insightful)
Books? (Score:2)
What's that? :P
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Books? What's that? :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kxYApOPnW8 [youtube.com]
Not tedious, some of the best SF (Score:2)
Missing option (Score:2)
All of the above. Because, you know, people like variety.
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The characters in 1632 are from modern day (actually a bit outdated by now) not from the future (except to the perspective of the downtimers). Still, it *is* good.
Recent - but not too recent (Score:5, Insightful)
I enjoyed the Cold War thrillers (both military and espionage) that were popular in the '80s and '90s. Military fiction these days seems to be mostly focused on terrorism, which makes for boring adversaries (rabid dogs that need to be put down versus an intelligent, wily, and rational enemy).
Re:Recent - but not too recent (Score:4, Interesting)
Missing option: Counterfactual (Score:2)
In particular, I like ones like Harry Turtledove's oeuvre [wikipedia.org], S.M. Stirling's Nantucket series [wikipedia.org] and various other works, the 1632niverse [wikipedia.org], and to go way back, L. Sprague de Camp's Lest Darkness Fall [wikipedia.org]. (I realize some of these are more military than others, but you know what I mean here.)
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I put ancient partly because of Turtledove's Videssos Cycle. Taking history and tweaking it a bit can be fascinating if done well.
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I like Alternative history, I prefered the Nantucket series over the 163X series, but I haven't read all of the 163X series yet.
However I also like future military combat SF, especially Weber & White's Stars at War, and the 2 sequels by Steve White
Anyway it can be all summed up in one word
Baen (www.baenebooks.com)
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http://baencd.thefifthimerium.... [thefifthimerium.com]
Bigger than Baen's free library at any given point in time, and while it doesn't have the newer books, it's a great (and by great I mean I-hope-you-didn't-have-anything-planned-for-a-few-weeks) way to read some excellent sci-fi, much of it military in nature.
..about World War One (Score:3)
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I don't want fiction, I want alternate reality non-fiction. Lets go back in time and enter WWI on Germany's side and see what happens. WWII would have not been a world war, but a Japan-China war, and without Russia having gone Communist, the democratic China (democratic monarch
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But, as you say, following the money is often most important.
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Interestingly, around the turn of the century the Germans considered a series of plans to attack the U.S. directly [wikipedia.org]. And as an alternative history buff you may be interested in a novelization of those plans by Robert Conroy called 1901 [amazon.com], and also the H.G. Wells classic The War in the Air [amazon.com], which if written today would be considered steampunk alternative history but is cooler than that for having been written in 1907.
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The 'no parachutes' directive was a simple piece of high-level idiocy; it was felt that aviators would not press home their attacks with sufficient determination if they were given an avenue of escape from their plane, so that they might choose to bail out of only lightly-damaged aircraft. Early in the war, aircraft were at a premium, and the cachet of air service was such that they had all the volunteers they could ask for -- and early parachutes were bulky and heavy, hard to fit in the cramped cockpits of
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I don't know what's being taught in schools today, but back when I studied that part of history in the mid-1960s, that's what we learned. France and England were running low on cannon-fodder by then (Partly because the generals treated their soldiers as exactly that.) and would have been forced to give up simply because they ran out of men who were both willing and able to man the tr
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Pershing wasn't committed to repeating the same failed strategy over and over, and had some fresh, imaginative ideas that actually worked didn't hurt.
I read someplace (I think Parachuting's Unforgettable Jumps Howard Gregory, http://www.amazon.com/Parachut... [amazon.com] ) where Billy Mitchell had an idea of flying aircraft and landing troops by parachute inside enemy lines to attack from the rear. Because at that time only way to advance troops is directly into front lines. But the war ended before an Airborne Div could be formed.
Getting back to failed strategy, how many of you think this kind of thinking still goes on today?
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Don't forget the pursuit of Goeben and Breslau: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Germany's field marshal believed that if the Royal Navy had sunk these before they reached Constantinople, the Turks would have stayed out of the war and Germany would have been defeated by 1916. This would also imply that the USA would have remained neutral and the Bolshevik Revolution might not have happened. The world today would look very different indeed.
The first casualty of war (Score:2)
Far future (Score:3)
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"Far future with axes, swords, and horses"
I was looking for an excuse to mention The Forever War by Joe Haldeman.
Hard to Choose (Score:2)
My favorite series are 1632 and Honor Harrington. Also, the Harry Dresden series - but that's not science fiction.
Missing Option (Score:2)
Where is "none of the above" (Score:2)
I can't stand "military fiction"? WTF is it anyway?
Recent past, near future, far future all in one.. (Score:2)
I just re-read The Forever War this past week. As the quote on the cover says -
"To say that The Forever War is the best science fiction war novel ever written is to damn it with faint praise."
O'Brien, Forester, and Cornwell (Score:2)
Guess I'm in the minority, though it depends on how you define "distant" or "recent" past. I have read multiple times the Aubrey/Maturin (Master and Commander) series by Patrick O'Brien; the Horatio Hornblower series by C.S. Forester, and the Sharpe's series by Bernard Cornwell. All of these take place during the Napoleonic Wars. It's a period of history not covered well in American schools (except for the little side-show we call the War of 1812). All three authors did a great deal of research to bring
Missing option (Score:2)
Cowboy Neal
bernard cornwell (Score:2)
I haven't the gotten into the sharpe series, but the grail quest series was fantastic. Right now I'm reading The Last Kingdom about the viking invasions of england.
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Military fiction? Tedious!
I enjoyed Starship troupers [wikipedia.org]
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not at all (Score:4, Funny)
Cancel the Three Ring Circus! (Score:2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4BS_1V2czA
Stasheff! [Re:Not at all] (Score:2)
He spelled the link wrong. It's:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troupers [wikipedia.org]
Re:Not at all (Score:4)
Military fiction? Tedious!
I enjoyed Starship Troopers [wikipedia.org]
It was a great read, but most of what made it great was not included in the film, which really was a bit of a circus. Honestly, they can skip doing any more Heinlein films if all they want is the futuristic setting and fight.
Re:Not at all (Score:5, Interesting)
The film was a satire of Heinlein's terrible social ideals encapsulated in a simple action movie, rather than a straight representation of his utopian vision of war encapsulated in a more intellectually challenging plot.
Reading Heinlein is a bit about suspension of disbelieve regarding all the semi-objectivist silliness in a way I can't quite do.
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Yeah, but taking that philosophy to its logical extreme is pretty much equivalent with fascism in every sense, and fascism just doesn't work out the same way liberal democracy does.
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Its fiction. Its supposed to be thought provoking. You do not agree with the ideals of some fictional organization in there. Fine.
I have plenty that I disliked about Starship Troopers but that one did not even register.
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Yes, I saw the movie, but I don't see your point. Heinlein's book was "here's a great way to run society/the military, and look, in the fiction everything works great" and the movie was more "Yeah, here's how that would actually turn out. Also here's some violence and a romance subplot because we're still Hollywood"
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What is that difference between having a society where only people who go to the military can vote and a society where every voter needs to do compulsory military service?
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It was to teach people "social responsibility requires being prepared to make individual sacrifice", which can only be learned by risking your life on the battlefield.
A system like this prevents the government from losing its focus unlike typical republics and democracies. Sort of like how America used to be focused on individual liberties an
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I have some bad news for you--WWE is fake.
You mean those aren't simulated fights performed by highly trained acrobats and stuntmen? They're real fights?
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I think limiting suffrage to veterans is, if not absolutely fascistic, then at least very undemocratic. Frankly, if dissent is disencouraged, there is little purpose to voting at all.
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It wasn't just limited to military veterans though. Everyone who wanted to could serve. Someone born without arms and legs would be given some sort of civil service job, even if it was just pushing buttons with his nose, if they wanted to serve and thus gain full citizenship.
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Weasel around it all you want, but differential citizenship is undemocratic.
And pretty fucked-up if you consider justice to be a virtue.
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How is it undemocratic and fascist (ignoring the horrid movie)? No one could be denied the right to earn their citizenship. No exceptions (well, maybe criminals were an exception). Also, military service wasn't the only way to earn citizenship. But the book's protagonist chose that route so that's where the story centered.
Also, no where in the book is it even suggested that dissent was discouraged. Now if your entire view is based on the movie, I can see where you can be completely clueless since they
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If there is a way to disenfrancise people, it will be abused. We're seeing that now with this manufactured hysteria over alleged cheating at the polls and the pushing of photo IDs to "solve" this "problem". That the state does not trouble to see that everyone receives a photo ID is most telling. Instead, voters may have to travel miles, wait in long lines, be lectured about how it's a felony to vote under a false identity, and pay a huge fee. It's the all new poll tax!
Requiring military service is rip
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Didn't see the movie, but I can see where you would be completely clueless about concepts like democracy and dissent if your entire view is based on Heinlein.
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How about you read the book first, then you will be allowed to comment on it. It's obvious you have not read it.
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Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the individual will to the state's authority, and harsh suppression of dissent. Martial virtues are celebrated, while liberal and democratic values are disparaged. Fascism arose during the 1920s and '30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced under Joseph Stalin) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems.
Re:ally? (Score:2)
Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the individual will to the state's authority, and harsh suppression of dissent.
I can see how only allowing veterans suffrage would totally prevent this.
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Seig heil!
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The society in the novel/movie was indeed democratic. They had limits on who could vote, but it's not really any different that restrictions on voting rights we've had in the past.
yeah so.. as long as there's a papal group of some size who is deciding things among themselves it's a democracy ? ? ? ? wtf man, wtf.
come on, it works just fine as long as you manage to be a "citizen" and convince yourself that others (civilians) aren't really people at all.
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Be sure. Few years ago Empire magazine ran a story "Triple Dutch" about Verhoven's Hollywood years. He was horrified by the book, did not finish it even, so it was a firm decision to make the movie a satire. I remember when I watched it first time I was rooting for the bugs. Only this movie and Avatar has had that effect on me. The uniforms were deliberately Nazi-like, the bathroom scene was intended to show that those soldiers are so brainwashed, so machine-like that they are not exhibiting even basic huma
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What terrible social ideas did Heinlen put forward in Starship Troopers?
The main one that people always talk about is that in the novel citizenship is contingent on having served in the military. That, and the general interpretation that the book is pro-military (e.g. GP's "utopian vision of war").
Personally, I think that we've been so conditioned to see metaphors and morals in our stories that we automatically assume that there must be a subtext to narrative choices. The whole concept of Chekhov's gun - if it's worth mentioning, it must be critical to the plot. We always have
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It's has been pointed out numerous times, military service was not the only way to earn citizenship. Perhaps you should take some time to actually read the book instead of basing your opinion on the completely tainted source of that shit turd movie.
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It's has been pointed out numerous times, military service was not the only way to earn citizenship. Perhaps you should take some time to actually read the book instead of basing your opinion on the completely tainted source of that shit turd movie.
Why don't you point your misplaced aggression at a more suitable and less intelligent target, oh like, /. BETA! That AC has you by skads in the literary analysis and sick burn categories.
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Starship Troopers [wikipedia.org]
Starship Troupers [wikipedia.org]
Learn the difference. It could save your life.
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Science fiction fans say they enjoyed Starship Troopers because they haven't read Haldeman's The Forever War.
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Science fiction fans say they enjoyed Starship Troopers because they haven't read Haldeman's The Forever War.
Nope. Read them both. Still prefer Heinlein. Also a Harlan Ellison fan. Love me some Arthur C. Clarke, too. Besides, Starship Troopers predates Forever War by 15 years. Haldeman had read it, surely, and would most certainly have been influenced by it. I call shenanigans!
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LOTR was anything but tedious and the violence was non-stop.
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Military fiction? Tedious!
More to the point of being true for myself having been there and done that. If it has to be fictional, of the very little that feels believable and much more interesting, are the stories in film or literature based on the actual experiences of their creators.
Whether true or not, only a couple of films seem to get close to getting the feeling right. As far as literature is concerned, memoirs usually work best for myself — Philip Caputo's, A Rumor of War and Robert Mason's two books, particularly the f
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Military fiction? Tedious!
If it's leavened with other stuff, like Erik Flint's 1632 series (featuring a few volumes that could be classified as military fiction), why not? Pure MF is not nearly as interesting as real-world historiography to me, though.
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Whoever decided this was a good topic for a poll clearly has no clue what Slashdot was once about. R.I.P. Slashdot
I avoided slashdot over the last week in protest over Beta. I come back to find out I haven't missed much and that my slashdot addiction has almost been cured.
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Whoever decided this was a good topic for a poll clearly has no clue what Slashdot was once about. R.I.P. Slashdot
I avoided slashdot over the last week in protest over Beta. I come back to find out I haven't missed much and that my slashdot addiction has almost been cured.
When I cleared all my browser cache, cookies, etc. was the first time I saw Beta. Really, you shouldn't worry about a slashdot addiction if they force that interface. Slashdot will die and that will be the end of it. There's something about dickheads in charge, who feel things which are perfectly fine require radical change.
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Really, you shouldn't worry about a slashdot addiction if they force that interface.
I agree .. but right now I can have my Slashdot without Beta .. so if I stay away I feel the pull of that addiction. I had the shakes on the first 2 days of my protest - then they slowly died off and I was like "slashdot, meh". Now I'm back its like "Yep I can see why I was protesting"
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"There's something about dickheads in charge, who feel things which are perfectly fine require radical change."
Racist! Why do you hate Obama???
Re:How is this relevant to slashdot? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm suspecting it's influenced by the upcoming 300: Rise of an Empire, another whack at remaking history in contemporary American values, with a bunch of guys running around who look more like pro wrestlers than the wiry little dudes of ancient times.
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Yeah, fuck all the remaking interesting cultures with american values! I've had some sort of class on Greek history every four years or so since grade school and it bothers me so much that they advertise period pieces and then erase all the culture of the time and replace it with some sort of sermon on idealized american values. I live in the US; I talk to my redneck neighbors; anyone can give me a sermon about freedom and it's a dialog I don't need to pay to see in 3D. Just get to the friggin pro wrestling
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Polls are user submitted, FYI. The idiocy is coming from inside the thread.
Missing Option (Score:2)
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This reads like a marketing poll. I'm not biting.
Please indicate how much you are not prepared to bite. a) not bite even one tiny little bit. b) bite only a small amount. c) only half bitten the subject. d) very tempted to bite so having a large nibble. e) hook, line, sinker, keel and outboard motor.
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Kratman's a total nutbar, yes.
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I tried a couple of Honor Harringtons but gave up in disgust at the author's political strawmanning.
In those books, a character can't be pacifist without also being cowardly, hypocritical, corrupt and Machiavellian. Only characters who adhere to a particular militaristic mindset can be good people. Although they were otherwise mostly good, this aspect killed my enjoyment.
Also, one chapter started with a short paragraph which managed to gratuitously specify about eight statistics on some (real current world)
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Honor Harrington? The first 67 books in the series were okay -- the ones that took place when Harrington was still a mere human. The last 589, however, have been a bit of a stretch. You know, the ones where she becomes a master space-yachtsman; a martial arts master; acquires a bionic arm; a bionic eye; an elite cadre of crack-shot martial arts masters bodyguards; a super-intelligent, super-empathic, telepathic, vicious pet "treecat,;" when her friends, relatives and everyone around her acquire these same "
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Oh, please! She's banging the PM's *BROTHER*, jeez...
I love the books, but I have to admit, it was funny. There's a part of me that wishes Weber had stuck to the original plan for the end of the battle of Manticore, although the new direction of the series has some interesting points too.
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War is about conflict. Conflict is what makes a story interesting. Conflict is the basic theme in fiction. Man against man. Man against himself. Man against nature. Often there are combinations of all three. You should have learned this in high school. Really, if you expect fiction to be without conflict, YOU're the one who has a problem.