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Operating Systems Unix Upgrades BSD

New Releases From FreeBSD and NetBSD 149

Posted by timothy
from the under-the-new-year's-wire dept.
tearmeapart writes "The teams at FreeBSD have reached another great achievement with FreeBSD 9.1, with improvements to the already fantastic zfs features, more VM improvements (helping bringing FreeBSD to the next generation of VMs), and improvements in speed to many parts of the network system. Support FreeBSD via the FreeBSD mall or download/upgrade FreeBSD from a mirror. Unfortunately, the torrent server is still down due to the previous security incident." And new submitter northar writes "The other day the NetBSD project released their first update to the 6.x series, 6.0.1. They also (rather discreetly) announced a fund drive targeting 60.000 USD before the end of 2012 in the release notes. They better get going if their donation page is anything like recently updated."
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New Releases From FreeBSD and NetBSD

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  • 60 dollars? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Osgeld (1900440) on Sunday December 30, 2012 @05:42PM (#42428185)

    Now that is cost efficiency!

    • by Anonymous Coward

      What is it with programmers and measuring money to more than two decimal places?

      • by Sulphur (1548251)

        What is it with programmers and measuring money to more than two decimal places?

        FWIW there used to be a plastic coin called a mill worth 0.1 cent. You still see millage in taxes.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Sixty thousand may be written as 60,000 or 60.000 depending on your locale. Some countries use ',' as a decimal seperator instead of the '.' you are no doubt used to.

        You don't have to tell me it's stupid and confusing and the world should standardize. I totally agree.

        • Is it too much to ask that when writing english people follow the conventions used in english rather than borrowing stuff from their own language that has a different meaning in english leaving us to guess whether they meant the meaning from their own language or the meaning from english? (yes in this case it was easy to guess)
          Is it too much to ask that when someone is too clueless/lazy to do that the editors fix it?

          I guess the answer here at /. is yes :(

    • by reboot246 (623534)
      I think I may be able to donate the whole amount!
    • by Anonymous Coward

      $60 dollars is a lot of money in netbsd land!

    • "They better get going if their donation page is anything like recently updated."

      Well, since the date on the image is Dec 30, 2009, I don't think you need to be in any sort of hurry.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by andrewa (18630)
      Submitter could be from any of these countries.... Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada (French-speaking), Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Croatia (comma used officially, but both forms are in use elsewhere), Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Estonia, Faroes, Finland, France, Germany, Georgia, Greece, Greenland, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Italy, Kazakhstan, K
      • by reboot246 (623534)
        We understand that, but the amount was given in USD - United States Dollars.
        • by andrewa (18630)
          Yes, USD was specified - doesn't mean it has to actually follow the format. I could say "60,000 Euro" and it might seem unusually formatted to a German. Basically, just get over it - it was either a typo, or the submitter was from a country that has different formats - we're all intelligent (might be a bit of an optimistic assumption I suppose) people here....
      • This list is a lot smaller if you limit it to countries where English is the native language. I would expect the same sorts of complaints if I translated something into French, but left the number separators in my own locale. Given that almost all of the English-speaking world uses the same thousands and decimal separators, it seems fairly simple to assume that, if you are writing for an English-speaking audience, you should use those.
      • by shaitand (626655)

        First the value was given in dollars. Second, he posted to a US website and should use the conventions of the host country, not those of his locale.

    • by smash (1351)
      Euro thousands seperator.
  • Lots of good fixes (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30, 2012 @06:20PM (#42428355)

    It should be an easy upgrade for anyone running 9.0, and it does add some neat stuff. These dot releases are usually logical improvements and fixes, but important new features do get introduced with regularity when they've been tested extensively in the the development branches.

    9.1 is adding KMS for intel (Unless that was already MFC'd back to 9), I think the new code for LSI cards including IBM M1015, support for newer Ralink wireless cards, lots of bug fixes and improvements.

    http://www.freebsd.org/releases/9.1R/relnotes.html

  • by AddisonW (2318666) on Sunday December 30, 2012 @06:21PM (#42428363)

    I've got FreeBSD 9.1 running on my machine now and it is absolute Unix heaven.

    The NVidia drivers work perfectly with my 580 card. The rest of my hardware was recognized and works properly.

    All my gaming is done on my PS3 and Wii and a little bit on my Android devices. So my FreeBSD is primarily used for development and some webbrowsing. Working on a system that is stable and free from the crazy and random crap that plagues the various Linux distros is wonderful. The only negative I've found so far is the desktop's ports aren't as fully setup as you get as with something like Ubunut or Mint since the major focus of most of the FreeBSD devs is on server use.

    I would like to thank all the lame people who have so diligently been posting their lame 'is dying' posts. I would never have checked out BSD if it wasn't for them. And it looks like the latest attempt at BSD FUD about funding massively backfired and led to a huge surge in project donations.

    I usually hate these type of cute little sayings but after having switched from Linux to FreeBSD it really rings true:

    Linux is for people who hate Microsoft
    BSD is for people who love Unix

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by KiloByte (825081)

      FreeBSD kernel: perhaps. It's userland, though... What I remember about IRIX was nicer to use than current BSD, and that was aeons ago. I have no need for BSD at the moment, but if I did, it'd be a toss-up between Debian/kFreeBSD and unstable hacks [zfsonlinux.org].

    • by Lord_Naikon (1837226) on Sunday December 30, 2012 @07:01PM (#42428561)

      Yes, that is exactly the way to enjoy FreeBSD - use it for what it's good at. FreeBSD + nVidia is awesome. State of the art compilers, every port installs its development headers, knowing that _you_ are in complete control of the system instead of the other way around. Outstanding development platform. I love it!

    • by Anonymous Coward

      "crazy and random crap that plagues the various Linux distros"

      Speaking of FUD..

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        You can (and, on a long-enough timeline, will) unwittingly destroy a Debian / Ubuntu / Mint system, leaving it unbootable, simply by selecting a wrong package in Synaptic. Package installer also enables and launches daemons without asking you, which is a huge security problem. That's never the case on any BSD's. The base system is kept separate, and screwing up with packages never screws up your whole system.

        Linux distros also tend to be desktop-oriented and bloated. (For example, can you name one Linux

        • Have already posted in this thread, so can't mod you up, but someone should. I hope you don't get hammered by the zealots, who mistake objective criticism for trolling.

          To be fair, many of the problems stem from a desire to make Linux desktops with great functionality, and of course it's perfectly possible to make enterprise-quality stable and robust server and desktop platforms using Linux...

          • by shaitand (626655) on Tuesday January 01, 2013 @12:40AM (#42438901) Journal

            I think he should be modded down on the solid basis of having referred to a Perl requirement as being 'desktop-centric' and 'bloated'. Vim is bigger than Perl. Some people think vim vs plain vi is bloat, those people need to go back to the early 90's where their definition of bloat belongs.

            I don't know about you but I don't actually WANT to spend hours fiddling with the system whether it be desktop or server. The only time I should be fiddling is when I want something unusual or custom.

            The server oriented versions of the major distributions are enterprise quality and stable.

        • by Bengie (1121981)
          I've been starting to notice that outside of the Linux kernel(Linus is quite strict at keeping things decent), most distros and userland tends to be semi-chaotically designed and slapped together. BSDs tend to be more designed by engineers and Linux distros tend to be more like some hobby project. Not to say Linux is bad, but it's not "Great" because of its disorganization and lack of standards.

          Another way I look at it is the Linux community has this like of "evolutionary" feel to it instead of "engineer
          • by shaitand (626655)

            Done right in the sense that it is stable but quite frankly a Linux system is pretty rock solid as well. Systems suffer no bitrot, don't crash, don't need rebooted and are easily secured. I generally find that the increased development effort on Linux has resulted in serious speed improvements relative to BSD as well. The "features" missing in BSD land are now old tested technology. CLI utilities are missing basic functionality. Old vi vs vim? What possible justification can there be for this? It saves a fe

        • by shaitand (626655)

          Yes because perl is such hardcore bloat. I mean it's like 6mb on disk and about the same in ram but only if you use it... which you will be since perl is fast, easy to develop on, powerful, and used by everything and it's dog. FreeBSD may not require perl but you are going to need perl for something if you actually USE FreeBSD. Also, what does perl have to do with being desktop oriented? You use more perl in serverland where it is worth spending the time to craft up perl solutions.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      OS X is for people who love Unix.
      FreeBSD is for people who love Unix but too cheap to get a Mac.

      • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30, 2012 @07:59PM (#42428869)

        You have never used FreeBSD or a traditional UNIX. I get it.

        OS X is neat, but entirely 100% different. Please don't bring up the UNIX trademark.

        I used OS X before FreeBSD (FreeBSD was not evening running on PowerPC at the time) and MacBSD before there was an OS X.

        OS X is much more similar to NeXT/OpenStep than it is to FreeBSD.

        • by unixisc (2429386)
          I've used NEXT in the past, and seen OS X, and I don't see how the 2 are even remotely similar. It's only when one gets into the underpinnings of the OS - XNU, BSD userland, et al that the similarity may be apparent.
      • by AddisonW (2318666) on Sunday December 30, 2012 @08:04PM (#42428897)

        Why would I pay effectively double for a Mac that:

        1. I can't even get a Blu-Ray drive with

        2. Apple's crap OpenGL drivers

        Having had a tablet now for the past year and finding I spend most of my casual computing done with it and all my development work on my FreeBSD system.

        Buying a Mac would be a waste of money. The only reason I would ever get a Mac desktop would be if for some reason I needed to work on a Mac desktop application. That is highly unlikely to ever happen.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30, 2012 @07:28PM (#42428697)

      Judging by your comments I would say that BSD is for people who hate Linux. :(

      • Not true. See quotes by BSD fans like me. We're not trashing Linux at all - BSD has its good and bad points, so do the various flavours of Linux. This used to be a place where people could come for objective discussion and advice, (sometimes still is) as well as a good chuckle now and then.

        Only by admitting that issues exist can we fix them. This is supposed to open software, remember?

    • by Gothmolly (148874)

      Honest question from a long time Linux user - what does FreeBSD give me that CentOS wont?

      • by siDDis (961791) on Sunday December 30, 2012 @11:27PM (#42430239)

        There are many reasons!

        Jails
        ZFS
        GEOM Framework
        Ports
        PF
        Carp
        Hast
        The FreeBSD Handbook / Documentation with consistency

        However FreeBSD doesn't excell for everything, for example Java support is far away from production ready. And another thing I ran into recently was that monitoring a lot of files for changes was slow/not scalable at all because kqueue uses file descriptors for monitoring changes in your filesystem. Linux, OS X or even Windows have scalable and working solutions for this.

        • by rs79 (71822)

          "Java is dead" - FreeBSD

          Rightly so too. Utter rubbish.

          • by shaitand (626655)

            I'm sure this was tongue in cheek but Java is rubbish. Unfortunately it is very popular rubbish.

        • by laffer1 (701823)

          Java support is decent in FreeBSD provided OpenJDK will work for you. The only thing I can think of that doesn't work right is the Netbeans profiler and that's mostly their fault.

          As for the file descriptor issue, that's quite true. In fact, I started to write an article for BSD magazine on the subject in relation to making decent file system search tools. I never got around to finishing it. The interface is cleaner for the programmer in BSD, but it's not scalable. It's quite common to have search inde

      • by 1s44c (552956)

        ZFS is very, very nice if you have lots of disks. PF and carp are nice but you will get later versions and better security on OpenBSD.

        The documentation does seem more consistent than any I've seen with any linux distribution.

      • by shaitand (626655)

        pfsense is nicer to work with than iptables. This is why many enterprise firewall solutions use BSD as the base. That won't impact you much because if you have a firewall that needs many adjustments you will likely be using one of those enterprise solutions with it's dedicated ASIC chips for performance reasons and which underlying system is present won't impact you much.

        The other thing is ZFS. ZFS is a pretty nice filesystem if you need a distributed FS. Most people using it, don't need it, but it is quite

    • You're already at 5, so I can't mod you up, so will just say "well said Sir!"

      (Yeah, i know, I'm well known here as a BSD fanboy...but there's a reason for it!)

      And yes everyone, I have tried the others - latest attempt being to get Mint to run on an old Eee PC last night...

    • by 1s44c (552956)

      Linux is for people who hate Microsoft
      BSD is for people who love Unix

      I hate Microsoft and love Unix. I use both.

      But if linux had stable ZFS I'd likely not run FreeBSD.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 30, 2012 @06:53PM (#42428519)

    I'm just reading an article on LWN.net

    http://lwn.net/Articles/524606/

    Where it's claimed that BSD is losing a lot of support due to Linux related tools and development processes only cares for Linux and not BSD.

    So basicly because of GNOME adopting things like PulseAudio, systemd and so on makes this desktop to disappear from BSD one day because these underlaying technologies doesn't exist on their systems.

    The BSD developers are certainly concerned about this issue.

    Please read above article for further informations.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by rmstar (114746)

      [...]Where it's claimed that BSD is losing a lot of support due to Linux related tools and development processes only cares for Linux and not BSD.[...]

      You know, part of the problem is that they have a crappy package management infrastructure, something I really find puzzling. Ports just does not scale, and things like a WM environment (kde, or xfce) are just hard to get working.

      For example, if you start from a bare install, and build & install xfce (which will take a while) you will be surprised to find

      • by ottdmk (1376807) on Sunday December 30, 2012 @08:46PM (#42429195)
        I have to respectfully disagree. While it takes some getting used to, the FreeBSD ports system is, imo, absolutely awesome. Running into conflicts is extremely rare. I ran into a software conflict two months ago. It was the first time in probably five years. (I've been using FreeBSD as my main home system since 2002.)

        Yes, if you install a desktop, X is not automatically a dependency. This situation works rather well for those who want to remotely log into the machine and use a GUI. Until recently FreeBSD supported FreeNX quite well (I've had trouble with the port recently. In my spare time I'm hacking away at it.). If you're remote administering a headless system, having X pulled in as a dependency is not what you want.

        I'm sorry you ran into difficulties with X. The thing with X is that you have to remember to use the x11/xorg meta-port. You can install all the X components one at a time through the other ports and I imagine that if you're building a desktop it would be an exercise in extreme frustration.

        If you ever decide to try FreeBSD again you might want to try PC-BSD [pcbsd.org]. It's a full FreeBSD system (they just released 9.1 as well) but the installer installs a desktop by default and the PBI system is less arcane then ports can be. (Bear in mind that PBI is built from the FreeBSD ports system and ports remain available to users in PC-BSD.)
        • The ports system is an absolute nightmare. Sure you've got things like portmaster and portupgrade (the latter is currently broken with no fix in sight). I spend far more time mangling ports than I do dealing with package management on any Debian based system. It took over forty seconds(!!) on an otherwise idle system (Ivy Bridge i5 w/ SSD) to list all the installed ports and their versions (pkg_version). Using the ports system is akin to pulling teeth as far as I can tell.

          The problems with X, for me, ha

          • by apotheon (577944)

            It took over forty seconds(!!) on an otherwise idle system (Ivy Bridge i5 w/ SSD) to list all the installed ports and their versions (pkg_version).

            Regarding your only specific problem mention . . .

            Do people still use pkg_version? Are you aware portversion is faster, and has been for a long time -- and pkg_* tools are reaching EOL?

            • by apotheon (577944)
              Oh, and . . . portmaster has built-in facilities for the same stuff that work even better than portversion.
            • I am aware that portversion (part of the portupgrade suite) is much faster. I was using it until portupgrade broke. I did just check and it appears as if portupgrade is suddenly working again. Definitely not predictable enough for me to want to keep using.

              I am/was using portmaster because portupgrade is broken on my system (it chokes on the pciids package). Portmaster is fast(er), but is unbelievably verbose, and its default settings are frustrating. Portupgrade defaults to saving old libraries, saving

              • by apotheon (577944)
                I find the situation somewhat the opposite, and have some wedged updates on a Debian system right now to prove it. I guess your mileage differs.
      • by Ankle (633399)

        There is always the new package manager if you don't need any special options and are fine with binaries:
        http://wiki.freebsd.org/pkgng [freebsd.org]
        https://mebsd.com/make-build-your-freebsd-word/pkgng-first-look-at-freebsds-new-package-manager.html [mebsd.com]

        It easily rivals apt-get but I still stick with the regular ports system because I need to compile several packages (other than the dependancies) myself for the different options not available with binaries and I've never found compiling from source anywhere near as simple on l

        • pkg-ng does probably address all of the grandparent's complaints. Unfortunately, the security incident means that we don't currently have any binary package sets available (hopefully they'll appear very soon). It's also worth noting that a PackageKit back end for pkg-ng is underway, which should make it easy to use your favourite desktop environment's package management tool on FreeBSD. As most of the pkgng logic is in a shared library, with the pkg tool being a thin wrapper around it, it's very easy to
        • by apotheon (577944)
          I'll use pkgng on the rare occasion that I need something huge and ugly like OpenOffice.org, in part because that won't pull in a bunch of asinine build dependencies and in part because I don't want to wait three days for something almost as big as MS Windows that I don't want anyway except for the fact some knucklehead sent me an Excel spreadsheet. Otherwise, I like the ports system (with portmaster as the front end, these days) just fine.
  • Working Great (Score:5, Informative)

    by Sadsfae (242195) on Sunday December 30, 2012 @09:31PM (#42429561)

    I've been using 9.1-RELEASE since SVN was tagged 2012-12-04 on both my home and work desktop. ZFS root is awesome, and userland is pretty much the latest bleeding edge upstream, I've had absolutely no issues running a full-fledged XFCE-4.10, Firefox ESR 10.x with Flash, 3D accel, everything desktop.

    I've used freebsd-update to go from both 9.1-RC3 and 9.0-RELEASE to 9.1-RELEASE also switching to pkgng.
    I'd recommend folks to look at the following guides if they want to use ZFS root or create a nice, full-featured desktop OS.

    http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=31662 [freebsd.org] (ZFS ROOT)
    https://cooltrainer.org/2012/01/02/a-freebsd-9-desktop-how-to [cooltrainer.org] (good desktop guide)

    Great job BSD devs, keep it up.

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