OpenBSD Hackathon Approaching 173
BsdFreakZoid writes "OpenBSD developers from all over the world get together once a year at their annual 'hackathon'. This year's hackathon is about to start with around 60 developers, taking place in Calgary, Alberta in Canada from May 21st through May 28th. KernelTrap has spoken with a number of OpenBSD developers about this year's and past hackathons. OpenBSD creator Theo de Raadt is quoted saying, "a few hackathons ago we had a slogan of 'shut up and hack', this is because hackathons are not conferences. People don't come to chit-chat, but to do what projects do. Some other projects hold discussion meetings, I would call those talkathons. We don't discuss, we do." Past OpenBSD hackathons have seen the introduction of SMP support, support for the amd64 architecture, and many other significant advances. What big advance will come out of the 2005 hackathon is yet to be seen."
Suvivor: Calgary (Score:5, Funny)
"we have a barbecue at Theo's at the beginning of the hackathon, to get to know the new people." [...] "we go out for food or coffee in small groups."
...and at the end of the day they vote someone off the island.
Re:Suvivor: Calgary (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Suvivor: Calgary (Score:2)
We're in the mountains?
*squints*
Well, I can see some mountains. They look pretty far away though.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Suvivor: Calgary (Score:2)
It isn't, it however located on an island. Most commonly the island is called "America", and it is generally divided into two parts: "North America", and "South America".
Re:Suvivor: Calgary (Score:2)
I was tought at school, that an island, is an expanse of land surrounded by water which contains no more than one country. If it does contain more than one country, then it is a continent and not considered an island.
Australia is the largest island in the World by this definition. However since it is so large, it is considered to be a co
Re:Suvivor: Calgary (Score:2)
In addition to this, I consider the change from Australia being an island, to being a continent to be wrong. The powers that be were wrong to do that and the World was wrong to accept it.
An island implies isolation. Australia is the largest country to be completely isolated by water and thus it is an island.
PS, with George W Bush at the helm of the USA, I feel a large part of North America is quickly becoming incontinent. ie, it
Re:Suvivor: Calgary (Score:1)
Not quite true. You may want to check out this island [wikipedia.org] which contains exactly 2 countries.
Re:Suvivor: Calgary (Score:2)
Is Pluto a planet? There are larger asteroids that have more 'normal' orbits. Is Australia a continent? How about Antarctica (which doesn't contain any countries)? What about tiny land masses with two countries.
Everyone has an intuitive definition of Continent and island. Those definitions ALL fail somewhere.
Re:Suvivor: Calgary (Score:1)
No discussion? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No discussion? (Score:4, Informative)
"normally, we have to sit down and write a long explanation email in order to communicate, and people are in different timezones, so the feedback is often less than fast. Being able to go directly up to somebody and perhaps even work together on a task in real-time, is a big plus."
"The reduction in distance and time augments the dialog between developers working in related areas, and some new projects can even spontaneously emerge on their own."
As always, RTFARe:No discussion? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:No discussion? (Score:2)
Hackathon Moose (or other Ex-Magnificent-Forest-Creature) Barbecue
30 cups oil
15 cups Soy sauce
5 cups Worcestershire Sauce
40 tsp dry mustard
20 tsp black pepper
10 cups lemon juice
10 cups white vinegar
80 cloves crushed garlic
about 75 pounds of boneless meat (moose, deer, elk, beef - try chicken
too). For reference this is roughly an entire large dressed (Alberta
size) whitetail deer, with some moose and beef thrown in for good
measure. I've never tried finding enough chickens f
Re:No discussion? (Score:3, Interesting)
OpenBSD is not a "distribution" if you are using the term as it would be used with respect to Linux "distributions". Linux distro's package other peoples software and tailor it, whereas BSD developers "take ownership" of all the software that falls under their releases and maintain it all as a whole.
This might sound like a minor difference, however use a bunch of Linux distros and then use OpenBSD and you might, like I and many others have, notice the very clean an
Re:No discussion? (Score:3, Interesting)
File structure efficiently laid out without extraneous crap. Man pages succinct and complete. Default configuration files with comments specific for OpenBSD. man "any filename" usually brings up a man page for that file.
I disagree. Debian especially is very focussed on quality, and each package having a very good ratio of maintainers.
I agree that Debian is focused on quality. I used it for years (Potato) while also using OpenBSD. Debian is certainly the cleanest
Re:No discussion? (Score:2)
It shows. As does your arrogance. I've been using OpenBSD for 6 years and Linux for 8 years. I have been following OpenBSD very closely.
X? I don't think so. gcc? No.
Such strong statements for someone who does not follow it closely enough.
Xfree forked. [neohapsis.com]
x11 - Houses OpenBSD's adaptation of the XFree86-3 software project. xf4 - Houses OpenBSD's adaptation of the XFree86-4 software project. [openbsd.org]
gcc is worked on within OpenBSD's source tree and part of their work en [onlamp.com]
Re:No discussion? (Score:2)
I use Debian-testing as a desktop system, I agree with your statement, but Debian has plenty of its own problems. For example, the stable release schedule is pretty tragic.
Conversely, 3.7 is the first OpenBSD release in years that broke the 6-month cycle, and it's less than 3 weeks late. It's been years since there was a Debian-stable release, and after the new one is released Real Soon No
Re:No discussion? (Score:1)
Donations (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Donations (Score:3, Interesting)
And as far as I can remember (although, don't take my word for it!), I emailed Theo as well. No reply, although that's more understandable
Re:Donations (Score:3, Informative)
Trolling Redux (Score:1, Interesting)
Shut up and hack (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess you can't argue with results though.
Re:Shut up and hack (Score:4, Informative)
It isn't that there is no talking, they do go out drinking and hiking and talk while doing so - it's just that they should have a general idea of what they want to do before they head to Calgary anyways.
They're there for seven days and are given a good chance to plan out what they're doing ahead of time, so although new ideas do pop up there, it's not like it's total chaos.
Things like the rewrite of dhcpd came out of those kinds of discussions.
Re:Shut up and hack (Score:4, Funny)
Thats it. I'm cancelling my flight.
great events (Score:3, Insightful)
Adaptec? (Score:2)
Anyone know what the outcome of that fiasco was?
Re:Adaptec? (Score:2, Troll)
aac was disabled, it is no longer supported by GENERIC (and thus OpenBSD).
Adaptec says they'll have their SDK out some time soon, which is still not what the OpenBSD people were asking for.
Scott Long thinks OpenBSD developers and users are a bunch of fuckers.
Re:Adaptec? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why do you have to do exactly the thing ScottL speaks about there?
Re:Adaptec? (Score:1, Flamebait)
He said that what Theo was doing was wrong and that the closed source CLI he made was perfectly fine - that things like Theo's little crusade hurt all BSDs further hopes of companies cooperating with them.
Re:Adaptec? (Score:2)
Scott Long is a troll. (Score:1)
While there's not that much political "forces" between the BSDs, freebsd developers publicly trying to prevent openbsd developers from improving their O
Re:Scott Long is a troll. (Score:1)
Not really. (Score:1)
Here's a link to Theo forwarding PHKs email about trolling at BSDCan to the openbsd list though:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-misc&m=111 619770429208&w=2 [theaimsgroup.com]
Re:Not really. (Score:1)
Re:Adaptec? (Score:4, Funny)
Yes. The hackathon after this one will be held on-site at Adaptec.
Alas, Adaptec doesn't know this yet. ;)
Calgary? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Calgary? (Score:1, Informative)
Calgary as hackathon venue (Score:5, Interesting)
I can tell you as a native Calgarian that Calgary is far from being the strip club capitol of Canada. The reason probably has to do with the fact that active members of the OpenBSD community live here more than anything else--that and the fact Calgary is a very well-connected city (among the most-wired cities in North America and maybe the best in Canada along with maybe Ottawa and Vancouver).
A little OT but maybe interesting to some:
Although Calgary and Alberta is not nearly as red-neck/socially conservative as people outside the province often make it out to be, Calgary (and indeed all the prarie provinces) have quite a puritan heritage--for example, Alberta was led by a premier nicknamed "Bible Bill" Aberhart for many years, and in Calgary from prohibition well into the 60s men and women couldn't be in mixed company in any venue that served alcohol (in later days--1950's the city relaxed laws allowing establishments to serve alcohol to both genders in the same room during the Exhibition and Stampede).
Things have changed a lot since then, but Calgary still doesn't have that big an appetite for strip clubs considering the size of the city. If post-hacking peeler-shows is what they were after I think they would pick a venue somewhere in Quebec--it seems that province embraced more socially liberal attitudes than anywhere else in Canada, except for a few interesting exceptions (in terms of equality for women it was opposite--Alberta and the praries were ahead of the game there and Quebec was the last province in Canada with universal sufferage).
Maybe that is why Ottawa is known for it's Linux activity--it is both a high-tech city AND is closer to the stripper-action as it sits on the Ontario-Quebec border.
Re:Calgary as hackathon venue (Score:2)
I'm from Saskatchewan, where you're not allowed to serve liquor and have naked women in the same building. When I went to Calgary for an IEEE trip, I have to say I was quite quite impressed by the French Maid. The atmosphere was great, the girls were great, and we all around had an awesome time.
Re:Calgary? (Score:2, Informative)
More strip clubs per capita than any other city.
Re:Calgary? (Score:2, Funny)
Coincidentally, Windsor is also my home town. You'd think I'd know that, but then again when one of the strip clubs advertisements is, "50 Beautiful Girls, and One Ugly One", I tend to steer clear.
Milk [windsorx.com] forever!
Location Information? (Score:2)
So for somebody that's organizing it, can you post a link to the information about the event itself? Things like locations, dates, times, etc? I live in Calgary, so hey, might check it out just for fun. But it's kind of hard to do that when you have no idea beyond "a hotel downtown".
Re:Location Information? (Score:1)
Re:Location Information? (Score:1)
Re:Location Information? (Score:3, Informative)
They're working, but they will speak in public (Score:3, Informative)
Disclaimer: I am very involved with CUUG (current President)
Re:They're working, but they will speak in public (Score:2)
As for the two events mentioned on the CUUG site, sounds interesting... =)
RMS talk (Score:2)
Here's an idea (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Here's an idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Theo has lots of personality. It might be in your face, but if you can't handle someone who speaks truthfully, then go back to living in la la land and masturbating to the underwear section of the Walmart catalog.
Theo gets shit done. What the fuck does diplomacy achieve if it just gets in the way of what is right?
Here's another idea (Score:1)
There will be at least ONE public discussion (Score:5, Informative)
This year, we cap off our best month in history, in which we have Richard M. Stallman speaking on May 18 at the University Science Theatres (seats 500). Less than a week later, Theo and the entire 50-ish turnout for the Hackathon, invited to the John Dutton Theatre of the main downtown library (seats 400), on May 24th.
The topic is PF, the packet filter; and the scheduled speaker, Ryan McBride - but the rest of the PF team will be there for question & answer. And with the entire Hackathon invited, the topic could wander a bit.
If you can make it, look for details at our web site:
http://www.cuug.ab.ca/ [cuug.ab.ca]
Roy Brander, P.Eng.
Chair, Calgary Unix Users Group
Re:There will be at least ONE public discussion (Score:2)
The guy [slashdot.org]'s on holiday, and not only does he read slashdot, but he takes the time to put a word in for CUUG [cuug.ab.ca].
Thanks Roy.
Quiet! (Score:1)
Alright...zip it! Zip it! Ziiiiiip! Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury...E-zip-it A When a problem comes along, you must zip it! Zip it good! Would you like a suckle on my Zipple?
SMP and AMD64 support (Score:2, Insightful)
Perhaps "portathon" would be a better name.
Re:SMP and AMD64 support (Score:2)
Re:SMP and AMD64 support (Score:2)
Re:SMP and AMD64 support (Score:2)
OpenSSH (Score:2)
Not quite. (Score:1)
Pf would have been a nice example of what's been accomplished at a hackathon, and something that both freebsd and netbsd have borrowed from openbsd. Code sharing is a good thing, quit acting like a tard.
UltraSPARC III/IV support!!! (Score:2)
Re:UltraSPARC III/IV support!!! (Score:2)
Geekathons (Score:1, Troll)
Work on "fixing" the TCP implementation? Or PR? (Score:2)
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:4, Funny)
Wait...lemme get this straight.
Now, admittedly, I'm ignorant of who PHK is, or what exactly this person has done to annoy you.
But you're going to switch operating systems because of a single person? A troll, even?
I didn't realize that trolls had gotten that powerful. Perhaps there is some magical property to hot grits that I had not realized.
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:1)
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:4, Funny)
I must assume it works the other way around too.
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:1)
Not that this means that it 5 is bad, it's more like not my choice of doing things.
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:1)
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Reports say that despite being told that that was not how OpenBSD developers view the situation he was unwilling to shut up about it until he was eventually told off by the crowd, which wanted to ask actual questions of Reyk.
Not only that, but Paul-Henning has been comparing OpenBSD developers to terrorists.
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:2)
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:2)
I could call someone a whiney fucker or simply think of them as such and tell them they are an overly demanding person which needs to learn the proper form in discussions.
To me those two things are equals, though one a more crude manner of description.
Your gross overreaction over what are these days rather common words seem odd to me.
Anyways, feel free to view things as you will, I really don't mind - b
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:2)
And then:
Anyways, feel free to view things as you will, I really don't mind - but do try not to dismiss one person being an ass...
Now who is overreacting? Ironically, my whole point was that you are overreacting some of the things some of the FreeBSD developers said ;)
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:2)
It's no overreaction on my part, I assure you, Scott was making a royal cock of himself on the mailing lists and forums (OSNews) talking about how wrong OpenBSD was and how this was ruining it for everyone else.
You were instantly dismissing points made because you don't appear to like potty language.
Don't worry, the retarded mods will save you. (Score:1)
Because any time someone points out something you don't like, they must be a troll, right? Good thing so many slashtards feel that way and will dutifully mod the guy down as a troll.
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:2)
I keep hearing this from.. certain directions, but I'm yet to see an actual explanation as to why GEOM sucks more than the ad-hoc mess it replaces. GEOM's given us better RAID support, the ability to export block devices across networks, disk encryption, better support for multiple partition formats and disk layouts, and a rational layered approach which allows for pretty much arbitary nesting of any of the above to suit whatever you want to do, not to mention a nice, well documented AP
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:2)
Such as GEOM, which I personally find to be great.
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:1)
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:2)
we write user level file systems that just mount into your namespace when you feel like it
want to see what's in a tar
fs/tarfs -m
ls
how about a zip
fs/zipfs -m
or
cat yesterday.tar.bz2 | bunzip2 | fs/tarfs -m
diff
and when you close that shell window they will all be gone but the tars remain
ah,
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:2)
Yes, because Theo is much easier to get along with.
Re:big development for this year ... (Score:2)
Theo is just fine to get along with.
Do and Theo not get along?
Re:BSD (Score:1)
Re:BSD (Score:2)
If not then the fact that OS X is based on it is something of a moot point
Re:BSD (Score:1)
Re:BSD (Score:1)
Re:BSD (Score:2)
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
KHTML is huge, and the Apple changes are huge. They've simply forked the Safari version from the KDE version because there's too many changes happening too quickly to keep the two in sync. Their contributions back are in a form that is largely useless to KDE (a big blob, with no way to tell what a change fixes and no way to tell what it depends on).
OTOH, they submit reasonable patches bac
Re:Be warned: Calgary has the worst strip bars (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Shut up and hack?! (Score:3, Funny)
Hmm.
Theo: created OpenBSD, an OS with one remote hole in the default install in seven years.
You: post on Slashdot.
Yeah, I know who's an idiot here...
Re:Shut up and hack?! (Score:1, Troll)
Didn't think so.
Re:Shut up and hack?! (Score:2)
Didn't think so.
Re:Shut up and hack?! (Score:1)
You don't see OpenBSD winning any awards for number of installations, do ya?
That's about as good a rebuttal as saying, "You don't see Telent winning any awards for cow tipping, do ya?"
Excellence in cow tipping has never been my goal in life. Market penetration has never been OpenBSD's.
(I'll even be nice and not suggest that you'd be qualified to judge a cow-tipping contest, though it pains me sorely.)
Re:Shut up and hack?! (Score:2)
OpenBSD, no. It's a niche OS. It doesn't surprise me that firewall machines are outnumbered by other machines. That doesn't say anything about the quality of OpenBSD code.
The fact that PF (written at a hackathon) has displaced IPF and IPFW as the BSD firewall of choice speaks to the quality of OpenBSD code.
The fact that OpenSSH is by far the dominant SSH implementation speaks to the quality of OpenBSD code. 90% of all SSH serve
Re:Shut up and hack?! (Score:2)
But PF and OpenSSH were
I do, however, retract most of my statement. O
Re:Shut up and hack?! (Score:2)
As I understand it, they've already worked out how things are going to go well before anyone steps on a plane. They've done most of the design work.
A
Re:Shut up and hack?! (Score:2)
I read the quote and fired off, didn't RTFA. Must've been a bad day at work...
Not everyone is stupid though. (Score:1)