Funding An Individual BSD Developer 141
PuceBaboon writes "Poul-Henning Kamp,a committed FreeBSD developer (the
main contributor to
"jails", one of my
favourite features) has lost his main
contract and is
appealing for funding to enable him to work
on FreeBSD exclusively for the rest of the year."
Not asking for much... (Score:5, Interesting)
As phk wrote, "Imagine if some of our users sent $1/month for each FreeBSD machine they were running." There are a lot of people and companies running FreeBSD, and it wouldn't take much from each of them to pay for several people to work full-time on FreeBSD.
Re:Not asking for much... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not asking for much... (Score:2)
A good thing, too, considering how much I've gathered in donations from FreeBSD Update: $10 plus a new computer which is dedicated to the task of building those updates. (That's with over 3000 users.)
Re:Not asking for much... (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:Not asking for much... (Score:1)
Re:Not asking for much... (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed.
I work for a firm with at least 50 FreeBSD boxes. After the recent tcp advisory the boss cant stop with semi-serious offensive comments about the BSD community. I'm now trying to get him to realise that the weight of his complaints are directly proportional to what he's contributed to FreeBSD... i.e. nothing.
Now if there was some way to allow him to pay money into FreeBSD... and have a say... I'm sure he'd go for it. I mean he pays for an MS TechNet subscription and all that seems to get him is a few CDs every month. Hell, this would be in addition to the ongoing FreeBSD development, so there would be a net gain.
Re:Not asking for much... (Score:1)
Re:Not asking for much... (Score:2)
http
http:/
Have you mentioned how frequently Microsoft Windows security advisories come out vs. FreeBSD advisories?
Re:Not asking for much... (Score:2)
http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/
Re:Not asking for much... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Not asking for much... (Score:3, Insightful)
Any amount of administration needs somebody to do that, if you administer money, some tax-entity will want to know about it and will want you to do it according to a set of rules, and quite likely, want you to pay tax on it too.
As I wrote in my solicitation, I wish the foundation could have handled this, but they did not have the resources to deal with it, mostly, and that is the interesting bit: lack of time.
I
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:5, Insightful)
He still has to pay taxes, you know...
It may be where his budget balances, but if he expects to live off the kindness of strangers, he needs to adjust his budget substantially.
He's not *expecting* anything. This is an experiment: See if the FreeBSD community is willing to pay for someone to work full-time on FreeBSD. If not, well, he finds more contract work, earns the same amount (or more), and works on FreeBSD in his spare time.
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:5, Informative)
Depending on the jobdescription, my normal salary would be at least $75K, so I tend to think that the FreeBSD users are getting a pretty good deal here.
(And before anybody falls into the other ditch: For that tax we get full healthcare, free schools (incl university) and a practically non-corrupt political system.
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
I'm sympathetic too, but I'm finding it harder to pony up knowing that 2/3 of it will disappear into the government ether and it's not even my government (especially as I just did my own taxes today, and that's not my government either, it's a government that will spend my money on cluster-bombs and daisy-cutters... hm, perhaps I should indeed donate to PHK and the Danish government)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:3, Insightful)
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."
If you're paying taxes to get your education, then it's not really "free," now is it?
That's like a car salesman showing you a $20,000 car and saying "Give me $20,000 and you can have this new car for free!" It's a dumb way of looking at trade.
and a practically non-corrupt political system.
One of the things that has been fairly-consistent about statist nations is that after the veil of com
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
Paypal doesn't support that many countries.
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:5, Insightful)
For my 2/3 tax, I get healthcare and there are no "pre-existing conditions" or HMOs to deal with.
It's a bit hard to explain to americans, but healthcare is simply not a thing I have to consider in relation to my employment.
I also get education, including college, for my kids.
I don't have to fear the pan-handlers, insane and other strays because we actually have a social care system that works.
And don't even get me started about guns, bureaucrazy, corruption and the oppresive regime controlled by big business.
I've lived in San Francisco. My son is born there.
I don't miss any of those things.
What I get by paying the same amount you do, is peace of mind.
Priceless!
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:4, Interesting)
You *ALSO* have the benifit os a stable socioty that has set expectations on behaviour.
We Americans come from so many parts of the world, that we Americans can have many views of other Americans...
One person's "Gun Nut" is another person's "2nd Amemendment Fan."
One person's "Dirty Hippy" is another person's "Free Sprit."
America *is* the land of pan-handlers, insandes and strays.
I like it that way - it's interesting.
(PS Thanks for all your previous work with FreeBSD - 4.9 is polised perfection and the 5.0 series is facinating)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
Europe is different. Many European nations have had a dominant culture for so long that they're actually NAMED for the culture! When everyone in your city looks the same, d
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know about Denmark, but have you actually been to, say, Paris or Amsterdam or Barcelona? They're a lot more multicultural than pretty much any city in the US except maybe New York and one or two others (and on the whole much less ghettoised than New York). Smaller towns in Europe are comparatively homogeneous, but no more so than mid-western American towns.
wow :) (Score:1)
Re:wow :) (Score:1)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
I have been to Copenhagen a few times, and I can not believe that you seems to imply that the pan-handling problem is much worse in the States. I saw as many pan handlers on the Walking Mall in Copenhagen as I do in DC. As for the crazy people, I have seen Idioterne [imdb.com], the crazies in Copenhagen truely messed up.
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
Or are you counting on your effort to be supported by the Euro?
Is this one more example of the "writing on the wall" for the FreeBSD 5 branch?
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
> supposed to attract dirty American dollars?
Ahhh, another one of the many Americans who considers any critiscism of the USA as a personal critiscism against Americans.
Why are you so insecure ? It's this "America is great" blinkered attitude that allows things like the RIAA, DCMA, and other arcane corporation-bought things to exist in your "free country"
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
Hehe, I'm a Dane too, and all I can say is -- beautifully said!
But why do you find it difficult to explain the healthcare system? That's easy! If you break a leg, you just go to the hospital without thinking you'd have to have insurance. If they find out you've got an inflamed appendix, they'll take care of that too -- free of charge. Oh by the way, this goes for foreigners too, to some extent.
Dental care? Well as long as you're under 18, sch
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
You can't?! Well, come on over to my house and watch me paypal him some money for his hard work!
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
He's not begging for money. Begging implies that he expects money from you and delivers nothing in return. He will be doing some much needed development work which I'm sure all FreeBSD users will appreciate in the end. And it's not like he's trolling or lying about what he said: "guns, bureaucrazy, corruption and the oppresive regime controlled by big business." All of those seem to apply in some form or the other.
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
Maybe the American FreeBSD users actually like freedom? The other Americans who are big fans of bureaucrazy, corruption and the oppresive regime contr
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
I'm glad I'm not the only one that got that vibe. He obviously has some problems if he's going to let his need to rip on others ruin his chances of getting funding from them.
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
You:"I can't see how you'll get many donations from the U.S.A. with such a chip on your shoulder."
Why? Do most of the US americans identify themselves with the: "guns, bureaucrazy, corruption and the oppresive regime controlled by big business."?
I won't be surprised that you are right and a lot of the US americans think that way.
But if that is so then the US americans shouldn't be
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
"No Taxation without Representation"
High taxes do not equate to oppression. Paying taxes without having any say does.
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2, Insightful)
Two quick observations. First, if you are carrying a $415k mortgage on a salary / wage of less than $5500.00 a month you either a) have no kids or b) have a really odd sense of how interest rates work.
"He's got some enormous cojones asking people to give him what amounts to $66,000 ..."
Not really. Poul-Henning Kamp is one of those individuals working on FreeBSD that should in no way feel bad for trying to balance time on a great open source project with family needs. He has the skills. It seems
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:3, Informative)
Second Linus does not work for free either and I wonder how much he gets paid.
Third $66k is not that much. Teachers make that, and one of my professors pulls in a $104k. Upper management positions can easily pull that much in and a lot more. This may seem a lot for someone working minimum wage or as a receptionist, entry level web designer but that comparison is invalid. We are talking about a proven, experienced, relaible hacker. A fai
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1, Informative)
Of course, *BSD work is now few and far between. You have Apple, and maybe some maintenance jobs at Yahoo.
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:2)
I have a small strawberry and black raspberry patch. And a garden with beans, squash, and tomatoes.
Work? Software company 10 minutes away, one stop light.
110K is what I paid.
Sorry, there has to be some benefits of living in small town TN. I am sure there are other benefits of living in silicon valley or boston.
Re:He wants HOW much? (Score:1)
In Denmark an average resently graduate engenier can expect about USD 4500-5000/month when starting in a new job.
PHK - haven't met him personally but - is highly skilled with 10 years experience hacking freebsd code, not an average resent graduate.
Of the USD 5500 he has to pay VAT 25%. That leaves him with USD 4400/month gross, this is the salery you should compare against. A salery less than that of a recent graduate.
The deal you are offered is extremely goo
Honorably Done (Score:1, Offtopic)
donate a bit! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:donate a bit! (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Make Apple Pay (Score:2, Funny)
Bullshit. You forgot to count Theo, even though he's more of a forker than a developer.
Beer-ware (Score:5, Informative)
A fair bit of phk's code is under the Beer-ware license:
(Some formatting changed for the lameness filter)
In all likelyhood, I'll never meet phk, so I reckon I can donate instead of buying him a beer directly.
Such a Deal! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Is it me or does this guy sound a touch arrogan (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Is it me or does this guy sound a touch arrogan (Score:4, Insightful)
Donors are paying him to work on FreeBSD.
He is to do satisfactory work on FreeBSD, and I don't see why he wouldn't - he's going to work on stuff he chooses, so I don't see why he would work on stuff he is crap at.
When you order the Chef's Special in a restaurant of some standing you're not expecting "soup of the day", the Chef usually produces something satisfactory, if not impressive.
Better than 3000 ignorant donors telling him what to do. Think 3000 PHBs.
Re:Is it me or does this guy sound a touch arrogan (Score:2, Insightful)
Perhaps people, who rated your post as "Interesting" could also join the conversation.
As some slashdotters pointed out, I am against free speech (because I've proposed to trash the trolls out of BSD section). Perhaps then all those pro-free-speech people, together with all those, who think phk sounds arrogant could reply right below this message.
If you know, how to do things the better way (and I am pretty sure you do; you wouldn't cri
Interview (Score:3, Interesting)
My bet: if the minimum gets met than at least two of the months will go too since it will prove that this works.
Re:Interview (Score:2)
110% (Score:1)
Matt Dillon's (dFBSD lead) opinion on this matter (Score:4, Informative)
I came across that but I really doubt that our visions are even remotely similar. Our work is going to be based on our well tested LWKT stuff. FreeBSD-5 does not have any LWKT stuff, or anything remotely similar to it. It also strikes me odd that it should require money for work to progress. I realize that there are potentially many people who would like to work on open source to the exclusion of their normal jobs, but the meager amounts of money that can be raised by our projects does not come close to replacement income for even a single person. Money also severely skews the governance structure, creating pressures and consequences that can result in a failure of the normal open source peer review process. In fact, I believe this is precisely what has occured in the FreeBSD project, on multiple occassions, in the last few years. -Matt Matthew Dillon
Re:Matt Dillon's (dFBSD lead) opinion on this matt (Score:2)
More explanation about the work and a plan? (Score:3, Interesting)
I believe that if he puts up a small work plan with the following items he will convince more funding from corporations such as Yahoo!, Apple, etc.
More details on the work he wants to do.
A description of the benefits from the output and who will benefit most.
Milestones and a rough timeline.
A priorities list on the work.
Just my opinion...
Re:More explanation about the work and a plan? (Score:3, Informative)
Yahoo! and Apple already contribute to FreeBSD (core team interview [osnews.com]).
Congratulations! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Congratulations! (Score:1)
I just out of idle curiosity looked up the slashdot story again curious to see how things were going. I had been babbling to my wife in the grocery story about this appeal for full time funding, and how I hoped it was going to work out... for the good of ALL... yes, i was babbling, but she pretended to by sympathetic at least.
This is really, really great.
It would be even greater if th
Re:Congratulations! (Score:2)
That compares pretty favorably with small public radio stations, non-profit golf outings, and many other forms of public fundraising.
Use Linux, sure, but only if I can kill all the frothing Linux zealots.
100 % funding reached (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Picture of developer (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Picture of developer (Score:1)
which actually IS poul henning kamp's homepage..
Re:BSD-wide lack of time (Score:5, Informative)
The replies to the other 2 PRs were more than exemplary. I got replies (and patches) in less than 2 hours for my reports on wine not compiling [freebsd.org] and amarok using using up all kern.maxproc [freebsd.org]. This, of course, doesn't mean that src folks are as much diligent as ports folks are, but the few times I browsed the -current and other mailing lists, devs. seemed friendly and helpful most of the time. Just my 2cents.
Re:BSD-wide lack of time (Score:4, Informative)
Re:BSD-wide lack of time (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, well... (*ahem*).
To be perfectly honest, you've been lucky. Ports PRs tend to get resolved fairly quickly; src PRs often get lost in the shuffle. The big problem is that most PRs are poorly written, either lacking necessary information or lacking coherant English; as a result, most src committers won't take the time necessary to comb through the database in order to find the relatively few good PRs.
Prior to getting a commit bit of my own, I often had bug fixes sit in the PR database for months... the trick, as I learned, is to send in the PR with a patch, wait a couple weeks, and then start sending emails to committers.
Dealing with PRs is certainly a major issue which we'd like to improve upon, but in the end it's all a question of time and money; reading through PRs is rather dull work, and if we're not going to pay people (and there isn't any money available for this) then there simply isn't enough committer-time to do as well as we should.
Re:BSD-wide lack of time (Score:4, Interesting)
On the other hand, (good) PRs are very important. I've been (I am still) very critical about the quality of gentoo (my roommate uses it, and since he is a *nix novice, I had the pleasure/pain of figuring out some stuff in gentoo), but I saw on their forums developers (ebuild-maintainers to be precise) complaining about the lack of bugreports.
So I was thinking about how us non-ubergeeks could contribute in a helpful way, and I think a separate section on bsdforums (say "PR Candidates") could be created, where we, users would test out some things to make 100% sure it is really a bug, it is reproducable, etc. before we submit it. Originator would be bsdforums, the threads could be used as reference, and thread participants would volunteer to test out the patches sent back.
Re:BSD-wide lack of time (Score:4, Interesting)
That would be great; but much less than that would still be helpful. Having someone go through and identify PRs which
1. Report a reproducible bug, and
2. Contain a patch which fixes that bug
would be useful just by itself.
Re:I/O out from under Giant lock (Score:3, Insightful)
Yahoo! got started on FreeBSD and now the news is they are having record profits. Where's the Yahoo! funding? Where's the Apple funding? Where's the corporate funding at all?
Re:I/O out from under Giant lock (Score:1)
In the end FOSS needs to make peace with this corporate race to the bottom, and convince the guys and gals with the purse strings that FOSS maximizes shareholder value.
Re:I/O out from under Giant lock (Score:2, Informative)
There were more than one in the past but its been a while since I've spoken to them all.
I believe Y! also provide some resources to the FreeBSD developers.
Basically, Y! have put in their 2c.
Re:I/O out from under Giant lock (Score:1)
So, I'd say that's a good start.
Re:I/O out from under Giant lock (Score:2)
It's not that the company execs don't appreciate the hard work, it's just that they would have to justify making a donation to somebody who would, in all likelyhood, continue doing what they are doing without it.
This is where non-profit organiz
Re:why the politics?? (Score:2)
As a libertarian, I long ago realized that most people disagree with me on politics. Even were I a conservative or liberal, there would still be one out of every two people who would disagree with me. Life is about people disagreeing with you. Get over it.
Re:why the politics?? [OT] (Score:1)
It was not a good idea for PHK to make the political comment here on Slashdot. (Even though he was just responding to someone else's complaint of Denmark's excessive taxes.) I disagree with socialism, but still very much support PHK and this project and am serious about soliciting my company to donate.
Given your serious misreading of my post, I'm not sure how you can even tell who does and doesn